My neighbor is a 60-something single guy who is a champion skeet shooter, and hunting is his whole life. He eats what he kills. Never married. Has friends who come around, quiet guys with expensive trucks with gun racks. We bought this house three years ago, a remodel place that hadn't had anything improved on it since 1976. So we've been wreaking havoc on our neighbors with projects. The folks on the other side are never home; it's their second home. Single guy has been so helpful and complimentary on what we're doing, telling us that it brightens his day that he has "good neighbors," and he's saved our a--es a few times on weather-relates hindrances, repaired a broken irrigation system while we were traveling, and other kindnesses. I took care of his pets once. Then the election came. Single Man hung out a Trump flag and an American flag. Suddenly I can't bring myself to even wave at him. My husband does, saying we can do more meaningful things than engage that guy on politics. I am attending my first protest in our city on Saturday; last time 3,000 showed up but I was ill. I'm going to make my sign tomorrow, lean it up against my car facing his house and let it dry for a few hours. I hope he sees it. If he engages me, I'm going to say, "Yes, I stand against Trump. I'm so surprised a kind, intelligent person like you would support a man who is systematically trying to disempower the American people. But I appreciate our neighborly relations and let's just leave it that." And yet that's false. What I want to say is, "You have been kind to us and we have had peaceful relations, but unless you renounce Trump to me I don't want you to set a foot on my property, you stupid piece of $%&÷ and cretinous jerk. And you need to know, I fear you because you have a lot of guns." I'm a coward.
No you’re not a coward. A coward wouldn’t carry a sign at a protest expressing your views. You are brave. But you are also protecting yourself by not confronting him. I’ve learned from my dealings with rabid MAGAt family members, confrontations don’t work. I think there’s a saying about not fighting a pig. You’ll just get dirty and the pig will love it! Stay safe at the protest and flip your neighbor off when his head is turned!
While I agree with your thinking about your neighbor, there is really nothing to be gained by a hostile confrontation with him. You won’t change his mind because he’s in a cult.
This is a good man who, like many, was fed a pile of misinformation. Regardless of who he appears to support, he is a kind, helpful man who stood by you as his neighbors. Like many who voted for Trump, he could not have foreseen what the President would actually do. A lot of Trump supporters were single issue voters who didn’t see the whole picture. There is so much crap floating around out there on Facebook and other social media that it’s hard to know what the truth really is. He got fooled, like a lot of people. I’m a Clinical Psychologist with 50 years of experience, so I had an advantage that many people didn’t. I recognized him for what he was almost immediately, even though I had never paid him any attention. My anger is not at people like your neighbor. It is the spineless Congress knuckling under to him. Even major law firms are giving in to protect their firms and their money. It appears that some Republicans in Congress are beginning to see the damage he’s doing. How many people would have predicted his ruinous tariffs and his gutting of the Federal Government? Who thought he would give such power to an unelected billionaire who is as much a narcissist as he is? Make no mistake. I detest him. I am livid that he got away with pushing a number of synchophants into his cabinet. I’m livid at the Senate for putting party and reelection over the country. Aim your anger at them and give your neighbor a break.
Isn't falling for "misinformation" a choice? He chose poorly, in my opinion. And it WAS possible to foresee what Trump would do because he bragged about being a dictator, and his comrades wrote the Project 2025 playbook. The neighbor is not innocent.
Agree. This is the problem with "we should give them a break". We've been living under the trump indoctrination for a decade. This isn't new information. We are the adults in the room, screaming for a decade that this isn't going to turn out ok. I didn't want to own the republicans, I wanted to send trump into the stratosphere so he could never bother our country again. Alas, no rocket ships are available. Too busy sending celebrities......
I don't think we should give them a break. I think we need to tell them the truth, but not count them completely lost. Our relationships with them need to change, and will. Leaders like McConnell, who specifically kept the Republicans from Impeaching Trump in 2021, need to be called to account. Leaders, who now enable him, need to be put on the spot, continually. Christian leaders need to be confronted with the truth. If God closes their ears, then we shake the dust off and turn our backs. But, I pray for all those deceived, who were told Trump was their only choice if they wanted to be righteous, even though they knew he was evil. So convinced they were that making any other choice would be unrighteous, they did as they were told they must do. As they ride this rollercoaster, being told that their choice will turn out to be good no matter how bad it looks now (that they must have faith), and trying to be good God followers, they will soon pay a high price for their blind adherence. I grieve for them and for us, the unwilling riders on this train of insanity.
It would be a choice if they had another option. In the cult so many are trapped in with the misinformation machine and echo chamber, that extends to their churches I wonder if they had a choice? Some are terrified of even talking with someone with a different opinion or political stance because they are afraid they will end up brainwashed, as they believe we are. Choice is absolutely possible, but they are not even being told what he is really doing in their echo chambers. They are led to believe everything is fine. They are told we are panicking. Therighting.com will give a glimpse of the insanity to which they are subjected.
With some people, I just try to keep speaking truth. With other friends, I have completely given up. I will keep speaking truth, and it remains their choice to hear it or not; and ultimately God's choice to enable them to hear it. Isaiah 6:10 comes to mind. In the midst of this part of Isaiah, he determines to continue to be a light to the people around him despite the darkness in which they are trapped. He keeps pronouncing truth as John does here.
I tried to reason with my family. I tried to tell them what was happening, what was going to happen and tell them to turn off Fox and for this time just vote for the country instead of party and next time you can go back for your party or get a better running horse in the race stuff like that so it was a choice at that point for them I believe
I too live next door to a misogynistic creep who puts his American flag draped over the front porch railing, dangling on the cement, rain or sleet or snow. But he's a "Patriotic Merican!" We share a fence. We've had words. I've posted before of my expressions of outrage and then feeling tremendous guilt/shame. I'm done. I Am Done. Time to protect assets from the regime, time to protest, and time to stop enabling hate because of fear of retribution.
I completely understand where you're coming from and back to 100%. I've processed through quite a few losses and I've landed up in sadness right now. But good for you. Be who you are and be proud. I was ill last time for the protest as well and I'm going to go this Saturday so we'll be out there doing our thing
You are NOT a coward. This is exactly what happened in Hitler's Germany and Stalin's USSR. You are NOT a coward. Just because someone is nice for a few hours here and there doesn't mean they are not a total jerk. How would he treat you if you were gay? Or trans? Or an immigrant? Or had autistic kids?
Seems to me that the guy probably appreciated how the renovations were boosting his property values, and that's the extent of it. Trump and his allies are all, every single one of the people around him are hateful, but above all selfish, and set their own advantages over and above anyone else's. Which ought to redefine anyone's definition of "nice." If a person would be cruel to ANYONE he would be cruel to you.
Your first idea of a response to your neighbor is a great one, I believe! It opens the door for discussion. Then ask him questions about why he believes as he does, why he is such an avid supporter of Trump. I’ve discovered that the more you try to get answers, the more they stumble and bumble in their responses. I once read the advice that it’s best not to try to be influential or charismatic; rather be curious. So be curious! The more your neighbor tries to explain his believes, the more likely it will be that he starts to see some cracks.
I agree. I haven't spoken to my parents in four years after they voted for Trump for the second time. And refused to be vaccinated for COVID. I have a medically complicated daughter. I took it very personally four years ago. I do hold Trump voters accountable for this devastation and cruelty. They are complicit. We all have agency and our actions have consequences. Even being willfully ignorant and saying you are obeying God by voting for Trump does not absolve you of responsibility for your own actions.
It is with sadness I have to agree with you. I have distanced myself from 2 whom I thought were good friends, and like all good friends the assumption has always been that we share similar values. Knowing that they'd voted for Trump, I reached out last week as the stock market was taking a nosedive and asked them if they are happy with what Trump has done since he's been in office, thinking that they must have come to their senses and concluded that they were gravely mistaken. Instead I got the answer: "Yes. We are happy with what Trump has done since he took office." Goodbye 40-year friendship.
That is the saddest part. They are so convinced he is "God's man" that no matter how bad it gets, they will not see. Is it pride? Is it blind faith? What line is a line too far to cross?
Doesn't the Bible talk about in end time some Christians will be swayed away from the truth and follow the Antichrist and when they stand before God they will have to answer to that and he may tell them he does not know them. That's the sad part cuz my mother and my sister have been devout practicing christians their whole lives and for it to end this way for them is tragic
Matthew 24:24; May God have mercy on us all. I have a child who has issues with lying. For years I fell for the lies. I made a lot of mistakes because of that. I figured it out and have deep regrets. We pray that they will figure it out. God works in his time and in his way. It is tragic, but if the tragedy causes them to turn back to God, all is not lost.
It isn't the God I worship. It's a god in a box who fits what people want him to be instead of the God of creation who is beyond human comprehension. Their God doesn't forgive sins or love the lost. He is as hate-filled and fear-filled as they.
Yeah. All of our concepts of god are projections of ourselves and/or our cultures. But as your comment indicates, humans have also always had numinous direct experience of the divine. I've had my share, all unbidden and unearned. I'm nobody special, but I don't think 'god' has favorites!
One of the most interesting books I read in my young life was, "Your God is Too Small" by JB Phillips. It kind of broke open some of the god boxes I had created. I'm trying to get my family to read it with me now. I think I need to rebreak some of those boxes.
I 100% agree with everything that you stand for and deeply articulate, in your quest to "Save America from Ourselves." As I also sound the clarion call from the upper Midwest - as as Minnesotan, Loud & Proud!!
As a Minnesotan myself I say Amen to Loud and Proud as I go tomorrow to join the protest rally near Tom Emmer’s chaska office. I’ve attended all 6 previous rallies and intend to keep it up until we can vote Emmer out of office.
My ex-husband is intelligent and well educated, yet is fully behind Trump. If I had known this inclination years ago I would never have married him. When he told me 5 years ago that “Trump is the only one in Washington who cares about the common man” I laughed in his face and haven’t spoken to him since.
Thank you John, for this "giving permission to think what I've been thinking for awhile" writing. I seem to have this rolling tape in my mind that reminds me of those I've cut off, and then I feel like I'm the common denominator. I just realized that I really AM the common denominator. I've surrounded myself with people I never truly knew and then once I knew better, I decided to move on with my own convictions. My once a year Christmas cards from these folk will probably be down to nil, but my moral compass remains steered towards empathy, education, and stoic determination that kindness and getting into good trouble will be my life's goal going forward.
I think my heart has already taken me there. DT had nine years to show us who he is, as did experience, countless lies & Project 25. Though predictable, most experts didn’t conceive of how far & fast such cruel criminality would reach by DT & his flying monkeys.
It befuddles me to no end what that conveys as a society. I can no longer respect someone who not only voted for him twice, but still believes in such devolving depravity. So I create distance, as it also helps me to heal, rather than infect the wound.
Cory Booker echoed in his filibuster speech, it’s not about left and right anymore; it’s about right and wrong. I’m naive, but I’m still hoping for anything good to come from this nightmare. Meanwhile I’ll adapt as it comes.
Also, it’s dearly heartfelt that Senator Van Hollen was able to talk to Kilmar Abrego Garcia, alive and well! All these events, forums, and other activities, combined with Substack journalism, help to build an exponential energy of resolve and respect for the American people who still believe in what this country stands for, and its value to the greater good of humanity. Thanks, John!
We've been having a monthly family zoom and I ghosted the last two and will continue to do so. I talk to one sister who is a Democrat and my daughter who had given up on politics but is approachable. Our parents taught us kindness, compassion, etc, for all, as I did my kids. To me, they stopped being family when they dropped those values and didn't want to have any discussions on the matter. If there is a willingness to have a real conversation, I will engage, but won't do the dog and pony show while the crap is piling up all around us.
Same here.. I've gone through the gammot and I'm the only one out of a large family extended who see and totally saw what it would be like.. I'm now in great sadness over their inability to reason thanks to Fox and all the misinformation. SMH
Absolutely. In order to create change undesirable behaviors must be devalued. Those who engage in the undesirable behavior must be confronted, and either persuaded or humiliated.
We've been having a conversation within my family about people responsible for this, and the reality is that it isn't just the people who voted for him. There is that third of the nation who just couldn't be bothered to go vote. Some of them may have been prevented by job or proximity - lack of transportation, but that doesn't account for this huge percentage who just didn't care enough or abdicated because they didn't like either. Perhaps we also need to look at the ways in which we teach our families and children about their responsibilities as citizens. So while I'm angry at those, particularly Christians, who chose Trump for whatever misguided or evil reason, I'm also frustrated with those who after the 2020 election where people recognized their need to stand up and make a choice so we didn't end up with a Trump term then, they simply seemed to forget what happened a mere 5 years ago with the first Trump administration. And I understand that the leaders, in particular, need to be cut off from support as they have full knowledge of what they are doing. I struggle as I know people who have been deceived, and I've seen some of the garbage they have been fed. Just tonight we saw an article stating that the Maine Governor is an "insurrectionist". If that is all your echo chamber feeds you, if you are told that the world is brainwashed and you can't trust anything but what you are being fed, you are essentially trapped in a cult. So I have deep grief for these people. No amount of telling them the truth could overcome the cult like thinking that secured their votes for Trump. And while they are complicit, completely and wholly, I feel like at some point they will need grace and love and will have to confront their own responsibility for the situation we are now in. I pray they do this sooner rather than later, and I cannot give up on the hope that transformation is possible even for them. If we do not engage, then who will they know to talk to when they hit the proverbial wall that we all know is coming?
As I consider what I've written here, another thought comes to mind. I think it was John Ortberg who wrote that the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. Also the movie, "Best of Enemies" comes to mind. Angry hateful people can change. Indifferent people don't care enough to change.
IT could be. John Ortberg wrote a book on the topic, and he may have quoted it there. I want to find the book in my mess of books because he said something about what he called "hurry sickness", which he said showed a lack of love because we hurry so much we devalue the lives around us. I get in a hurry so much, and thoughts like that help me look at myself and try to pull back and realize how valuable all the lives around me are.
These are hash words, but sometimes, the truth is brutal. The people who supported tRump and helped bring this destruction down upon our shoulders and upon those we love didn’t just vote in a vacuum. They knew who he was after the first horrific four years and by all the hateful and dangerous things he has said since 2015; if they supported him a second and third time, it was with full understanding of the creature they were raising up. They may have said they voted for the price of eggs or for border security, but the other propensities—racism, misogyny, religious hypocrisy, intolerance for the “other”, lack of empathy for the less fortunate—must have been simmering underneath. tRump just turned these submersed feelings up to full boil. Therefore misinformation and ignorance of the truth is no excuse. They could hear him with their own ears and see him (and January 6th) with their own eyes. It is so painful to admit his because my very best friend falls into this category, and I am just heartsick about it.
The sad fact is that Trump has given a lot of people permission to be their worst selves, to express feelings and beliefs that, as you said, were simmering inside them. Since Trump proudly says the ugly things out loud, people noe feel comfortable doing the same thing.
I have 4 siblings. One is a Trumper. We don’t talk politics around the Trumper but the rest of us have tried and failed to change his mind. I love my brother and think he is stubborn and misguided. And racist. It is painful to think that he thinks that way especially because my children were adopted and are mixed race as are my grandchildren. I don’t want to completely cut him off because our family is close otherwise. I’m still hoping that he will wake up. We share so many values and I don’t know how he can be supporting the mayhem that is going on.
DJT doesn’t frighten me half as much as his followers do. Sadly, I have begun to distance from coworkers, friends and family members who embrace his beliefs. I don’t know if they will realize or care that I am doing this. But there is something fundamentally wrong with validating the people who validate him by gifting them with my proximity and friendship. I wonder what they will be thinking when I don’t come around or call any more.
Respectfully, John, I have to disagree with you on this. I am fervently anti-Trump, and I am utterly distraught over everything he is doing to this country. I have no idea how good, kind, loving people in my life can support him. But I keep thinking, what would Jesus do? I can't imagine that he would take this stand that you are taking. He would "forgive them, for they know not what they do." He would speak the truth in love, "exposing the atrocities, and caring for those under duress," but he would never say about Trump supporters that "they don't deserve proximity with us." Difficult as it is, I think we need to stay in conversation with them, while staying firm in our convictions, and continuing to push back. How can we know who might come to their senses and admit their errors? Shunning them from your presence will certainly not bring them around. I don't believe the answer is to "withhold our friendship, exclude them from our holiday gatherings, cut personal and professional ties, and practically speaking, marginalize them." (And didn't Jesus always stand with the marginalized, anyway?) Many people voted for Trump because they wanted lower prices and a more secure border. Not all of them are gleefully watching as aid is cut from the most vulnerable and federal employees are terminated, etc. Maybe it's true that "they enable it by their cowardice and silence." But haven't many of us been complicit to some extent by our own cowardice and silence through the years leading up to this? Obviously, if I need to distance myself from certain people to protect my heart and soul, I will do that. But I worry when we start passing judgment and deciding who is good enough to be welcome where "good people gather." Again, I'm thinking about how Jesus would respond to these people you are talking about severing ties with.
Jesus would overturn the tables of the moneychangers in anger. Trumpers are not "marginalized". They are hurtful, proud, and have had no consequences for their decisions to hurt others.
Absolutely, we should be angry, very angry. Let's overturn some tables. But I still don't think we should stop associating with people who are on the other side. And just to clarify what I meant about Jesus standing with the marginalized-- I'm not saying that Trumpers are marginalized. I was responding to John's opinion that we should make them the marginalized ones. And it just made me think how Jesus always stood with the marginalized. No, I do not think that Trump supports are marginalized.
The one thing I will say in response to your very thoughtful comment is that Trump's supporters are very, very willing, and some of them also take an ugly glee in insulting and demonizing Democrats, feminists, LGBTQ+ people.
These people have shoved their ignorance and hate in our faces, time and time again. When do thry pay a price for enabling a wannabee tyrant whose goal is his oen enrichment, and eho continues to use fear prejudice and hate to divide our terribly polarized nation? His supporters choose to live in their bubble of Fox news andrightwing podcasts.
It's possible to forgive someone but also to recognize that their conduct means that you no longer find them to be people with whom you share values.
Yes, it's horrible the way some people act. Absolutely. I don't understand how they can utter "Jesus" and "Trump" in the same sentence. He is antithetical to Christianity. And I agree that I may no longer share values with certain people, and I may wish to cut ties if I find the relationship is harmful to me. But I don't agree that we must "withhold our friendship" and "they don't deserve proximity to us." This only adds to the polarization.
Rose, finally! I read John’s post and thought, No. Peter asked how many times we must forgive someone who has wronged us. When Jesus said “Seven times seventy,” He didn’t mean 490 times. Theologians agree that He meant an infinite number of times. By deliberately cutting ourselves off from those who are Trumpers, we are turning ourselves into them, which is exactly the division Trump wants. Yes, speak out against racism, protest however you can - but deliberately “shun” people? No, that’s the division Trump wants.
To Rose and Bonnie: I agree with John on this and had thought about writing that we should be shunning our Trump supporting family and neighbors, which I am actively doing now. So I started my research on shunning and was surprised to find this biblical reference:
In 1 Thessalonians 5:22, we are commanded, “Abstain from every form of evil.” The Greek text employs a verb meaning “shun.” It has connotations of abhorrence, loathing, and revulsion. It is the proper response to anything impure or morally filthy.
The parents disowned me 3 weeks before the election and told me to change my name and never call them again. I also make sure that I don't hire people who support him. I am not willing to pay my hard-earned money to a plumber, carpenter, contractor, landscaper, etc. that agrees with this horror show. In addition to researching stores and brands and who they donated to before I spend money there, like never shopping at Amazon, no matter how convenient it may seem. We have to do the extra work, but money talks.
I’m lucky and I know damn well I am. I come from a strongly Democratic family and we have very quiet Thanksgivings. I don’t have to shun anyone in my family…or my exhusband’s family.
But I do have neighbors I like very much who watch Fox. Must I shun them? I live in a very blue area but I know I run into Trumpers, occasionally. Do I shun them? Or do I wait to see if they shun me for my beliefs?
We have flown our Pride flag during the last 2 years of June in our new neighborhood, wanting to show support for our LGBTQ friends and family. My husband and I are straight. We have a lot of gay and lesbian couples in the neighborhood who are scared to talk with their neighbors for obvious reasons. We wanted to let them know we are open to meeting our neighbors, and recognize the turmoil of our country, which continues to devolve into fear and lies. In turn, we have now been shunned by the homophobes who live amongst us. Oh well. Live your life the authentic way you want. If you feel worse after talking to your neighbors, then find a new connection. If you feel better after talking to your neighbors, then stick with them. Your gut will tell you.
I'm all alone.. With my dog but there are three other widowed women on my street.. I'm engaging with them cuz we are still like minded... And oh course SUBSTACK. YOU are my family now
You are surrounded by like minded folks, Peggy, on your substacks. Even though we are just communicating online, I'm sending you strength for the journey and as a fellow dog lover, a belly scratch for your canine companion. They are the best when you're feeling blue.
Racism is not ok, and if they express racist views, I'd call them on it. I go with the second option, because God works in his time, and sometimes with some people it takes a long time. If they still engage, then they still might hear. I could be wrong. I'm not saying that people who support Trump aren't racist, because there has to be racism in there to not be appalled at what he is doing. At the same time, I have friends and family (more distant in both cases now) who are single-issue voters, and it is abortion. They cannot see beyond that. They don't like the treatment of immigrants, but their echo chamber is telling them it is justified and they made the "righteous" choice. They are deceived, and I grieve and mourn. It is like a death of sorts. I want to be a light in the darkness. I'm trying to learn how to do that.
My neighbor is a 60-something single guy who is a champion skeet shooter, and hunting is his whole life. He eats what he kills. Never married. Has friends who come around, quiet guys with expensive trucks with gun racks. We bought this house three years ago, a remodel place that hadn't had anything improved on it since 1976. So we've been wreaking havoc on our neighbors with projects. The folks on the other side are never home; it's their second home. Single guy has been so helpful and complimentary on what we're doing, telling us that it brightens his day that he has "good neighbors," and he's saved our a--es a few times on weather-relates hindrances, repaired a broken irrigation system while we were traveling, and other kindnesses. I took care of his pets once. Then the election came. Single Man hung out a Trump flag and an American flag. Suddenly I can't bring myself to even wave at him. My husband does, saying we can do more meaningful things than engage that guy on politics. I am attending my first protest in our city on Saturday; last time 3,000 showed up but I was ill. I'm going to make my sign tomorrow, lean it up against my car facing his house and let it dry for a few hours. I hope he sees it. If he engages me, I'm going to say, "Yes, I stand against Trump. I'm so surprised a kind, intelligent person like you would support a man who is systematically trying to disempower the American people. But I appreciate our neighborly relations and let's just leave it that." And yet that's false. What I want to say is, "You have been kind to us and we have had peaceful relations, but unless you renounce Trump to me I don't want you to set a foot on my property, you stupid piece of $%&÷ and cretinous jerk. And you need to know, I fear you because you have a lot of guns." I'm a coward.
No you’re not a coward. A coward wouldn’t carry a sign at a protest expressing your views. You are brave. But you are also protecting yourself by not confronting him. I’ve learned from my dealings with rabid MAGAt family members, confrontations don’t work. I think there’s a saying about not fighting a pig. You’ll just get dirty and the pig will love it! Stay safe at the protest and flip your neighbor off when his head is turned!
While I agree with your thinking about your neighbor, there is really nothing to be gained by a hostile confrontation with him. You won’t change his mind because he’s in a cult.
This is a good man who, like many, was fed a pile of misinformation. Regardless of who he appears to support, he is a kind, helpful man who stood by you as his neighbors. Like many who voted for Trump, he could not have foreseen what the President would actually do. A lot of Trump supporters were single issue voters who didn’t see the whole picture. There is so much crap floating around out there on Facebook and other social media that it’s hard to know what the truth really is. He got fooled, like a lot of people. I’m a Clinical Psychologist with 50 years of experience, so I had an advantage that many people didn’t. I recognized him for what he was almost immediately, even though I had never paid him any attention. My anger is not at people like your neighbor. It is the spineless Congress knuckling under to him. Even major law firms are giving in to protect their firms and their money. It appears that some Republicans in Congress are beginning to see the damage he’s doing. How many people would have predicted his ruinous tariffs and his gutting of the Federal Government? Who thought he would give such power to an unelected billionaire who is as much a narcissist as he is? Make no mistake. I detest him. I am livid that he got away with pushing a number of synchophants into his cabinet. I’m livid at the Senate for putting party and reelection over the country. Aim your anger at them and give your neighbor a break.
Isn't falling for "misinformation" a choice? He chose poorly, in my opinion. And it WAS possible to foresee what Trump would do because he bragged about being a dictator, and his comrades wrote the Project 2025 playbook. The neighbor is not innocent.
Agree. This is the problem with "we should give them a break". We've been living under the trump indoctrination for a decade. This isn't new information. We are the adults in the room, screaming for a decade that this isn't going to turn out ok. I didn't want to own the republicans, I wanted to send trump into the stratosphere so he could never bother our country again. Alas, no rocket ships are available. Too busy sending celebrities......
I don't think we should give them a break. I think we need to tell them the truth, but not count them completely lost. Our relationships with them need to change, and will. Leaders like McConnell, who specifically kept the Republicans from Impeaching Trump in 2021, need to be called to account. Leaders, who now enable him, need to be put on the spot, continually. Christian leaders need to be confronted with the truth. If God closes their ears, then we shake the dust off and turn our backs. But, I pray for all those deceived, who were told Trump was their only choice if they wanted to be righteous, even though they knew he was evil. So convinced they were that making any other choice would be unrighteous, they did as they were told they must do. As they ride this rollercoaster, being told that their choice will turn out to be good no matter how bad it looks now (that they must have faith), and trying to be good God followers, they will soon pay a high price for their blind adherence. I grieve for them and for us, the unwilling riders on this train of insanity.
It would be a choice if they had another option. In the cult so many are trapped in with the misinformation machine and echo chamber, that extends to their churches I wonder if they had a choice? Some are terrified of even talking with someone with a different opinion or political stance because they are afraid they will end up brainwashed, as they believe we are. Choice is absolutely possible, but they are not even being told what he is really doing in their echo chambers. They are led to believe everything is fine. They are told we are panicking. Therighting.com will give a glimpse of the insanity to which they are subjected.
With some people, I just try to keep speaking truth. With other friends, I have completely given up. I will keep speaking truth, and it remains their choice to hear it or not; and ultimately God's choice to enable them to hear it. Isaiah 6:10 comes to mind. In the midst of this part of Isaiah, he determines to continue to be a light to the people around him despite the darkness in which they are trapped. He keeps pronouncing truth as John does here.
I tried to reason with my family. I tried to tell them what was happening, what was going to happen and tell them to turn off Fox and for this time just vote for the country instead of party and next time you can go back for your party or get a better running horse in the race stuff like that so it was a choice at that point for them I believe
Those who voted for him in 2024 are either fully on board or willfully blind. His first term, COVID, and J6……no excuse
Either way it’s a moral transgression that wounds my soul.
Working to minimize my exposure to these people
I too live next door to a misogynistic creep who puts his American flag draped over the front porch railing, dangling on the cement, rain or sleet or snow. But he's a "Patriotic Merican!" We share a fence. We've had words. I've posted before of my expressions of outrage and then feeling tremendous guilt/shame. I'm done. I Am Done. Time to protect assets from the regime, time to protest, and time to stop enabling hate because of fear of retribution.
I completely understand where you're coming from and back to 100%. I've processed through quite a few losses and I've landed up in sadness right now. But good for you. Be who you are and be proud. I was ill last time for the protest as well and I'm going to go this Saturday so we'll be out there doing our thing
You are NOT a coward. This is exactly what happened in Hitler's Germany and Stalin's USSR. You are NOT a coward. Just because someone is nice for a few hours here and there doesn't mean they are not a total jerk. How would he treat you if you were gay? Or trans? Or an immigrant? Or had autistic kids?
Seems to me that the guy probably appreciated how the renovations were boosting his property values, and that's the extent of it. Trump and his allies are all, every single one of the people around him are hateful, but above all selfish, and set their own advantages over and above anyone else's. Which ought to redefine anyone's definition of "nice." If a person would be cruel to ANYONE he would be cruel to you.
Your first idea of a response to your neighbor is a great one, I believe! It opens the door for discussion. Then ask him questions about why he believes as he does, why he is such an avid supporter of Trump. I’ve discovered that the more you try to get answers, the more they stumble and bumble in their responses. I once read the advice that it’s best not to try to be influential or charismatic; rather be curious. So be curious! The more your neighbor tries to explain his believes, the more likely it will be that he starts to see some cracks.
I agree. I haven't spoken to my parents in four years after they voted for Trump for the second time. And refused to be vaccinated for COVID. I have a medically complicated daughter. I took it very personally four years ago. I do hold Trump voters accountable for this devastation and cruelty. They are complicit. We all have agency and our actions have consequences. Even being willfully ignorant and saying you are obeying God by voting for Trump does not absolve you of responsibility for your own actions.
It is with sadness I have to agree with you. I have distanced myself from 2 whom I thought were good friends, and like all good friends the assumption has always been that we share similar values. Knowing that they'd voted for Trump, I reached out last week as the stock market was taking a nosedive and asked them if they are happy with what Trump has done since he's been in office, thinking that they must have come to their senses and concluded that they were gravely mistaken. Instead I got the answer: "Yes. We are happy with what Trump has done since he took office." Goodbye 40-year friendship.
That is the saddest part. They are so convinced he is "God's man" that no matter how bad it gets, they will not see. Is it pride? Is it blind faith? What line is a line too far to cross?
Doesn't the Bible talk about in end time some Christians will be swayed away from the truth and follow the Antichrist and when they stand before God they will have to answer to that and he may tell them he does not know them. That's the sad part cuz my mother and my sister have been devout practicing christians their whole lives and for it to end this way for them is tragic
Matthew 24:24; May God have mercy on us all. I have a child who has issues with lying. For years I fell for the lies. I made a lot of mistakes because of that. I figured it out and have deep regrets. We pray that they will figure it out. God works in his time and in his way. It is tragic, but if the tragedy causes them to turn back to God, all is not lost.
What kind of "god" is that?
It isn't the God I worship. It's a god in a box who fits what people want him to be instead of the God of creation who is beyond human comprehension. Their God doesn't forgive sins or love the lost. He is as hate-filled and fear-filled as they.
Yeah. All of our concepts of god are projections of ourselves and/or our cultures. But as your comment indicates, humans have also always had numinous direct experience of the divine. I've had my share, all unbidden and unearned. I'm nobody special, but I don't think 'god' has favorites!
One of the most interesting books I read in my young life was, "Your God is Too Small" by JB Phillips. It kind of broke open some of the god boxes I had created. I'm trying to get my family to read it with me now. I think I need to rebreak some of those boxes.
My dear Mr. Pavlovitsz,
I 100% agree with everything that you stand for and deeply articulate, in your quest to "Save America from Ourselves." As I also sound the clarion call from the upper Midwest - as as Minnesotan, Loud & Proud!!
As a Minnesotan myself I say Amen to Loud and Proud as I go tomorrow to join the protest rally near Tom Emmer’s chaska office. I’ve attended all 6 previous rallies and intend to keep it up until we can vote Emmer out of office.
My ex-husband is intelligent and well educated, yet is fully behind Trump. If I had known this inclination years ago I would never have married him. When he told me 5 years ago that “Trump is the only one in Washington who cares about the common man” I laughed in his face and haven’t spoken to him since.
Thank you John, for this "giving permission to think what I've been thinking for awhile" writing. I seem to have this rolling tape in my mind that reminds me of those I've cut off, and then I feel like I'm the common denominator. I just realized that I really AM the common denominator. I've surrounded myself with people I never truly knew and then once I knew better, I decided to move on with my own convictions. My once a year Christmas cards from these folk will probably be down to nil, but my moral compass remains steered towards empathy, education, and stoic determination that kindness and getting into good trouble will be my life's goal going forward.
I think my heart has already taken me there. DT had nine years to show us who he is, as did experience, countless lies & Project 25. Though predictable, most experts didn’t conceive of how far & fast such cruel criminality would reach by DT & his flying monkeys.
It befuddles me to no end what that conveys as a society. I can no longer respect someone who not only voted for him twice, but still believes in such devolving depravity. So I create distance, as it also helps me to heal, rather than infect the wound.
Cory Booker echoed in his filibuster speech, it’s not about left and right anymore; it’s about right and wrong. I’m naive, but I’m still hoping for anything good to come from this nightmare. Meanwhile I’ll adapt as it comes.
Also, it’s dearly heartfelt that Senator Van Hollen was able to talk to Kilmar Abrego Garcia, alive and well! All these events, forums, and other activities, combined with Substack journalism, help to build an exponential energy of resolve and respect for the American people who still believe in what this country stands for, and its value to the greater good of humanity. Thanks, John!
We've been having a monthly family zoom and I ghosted the last two and will continue to do so. I talk to one sister who is a Democrat and my daughter who had given up on politics but is approachable. Our parents taught us kindness, compassion, etc, for all, as I did my kids. To me, they stopped being family when they dropped those values and didn't want to have any discussions on the matter. If there is a willingness to have a real conversation, I will engage, but won't do the dog and pony show while the crap is piling up all around us.
Same here.. I've gone through the gammot and I'm the only one out of a large family extended who see and totally saw what it would be like.. I'm now in great sadness over their inability to reason thanks to Fox and all the misinformation. SMH
Absolutely. In order to create change undesirable behaviors must be devalued. Those who engage in the undesirable behavior must be confronted, and either persuaded or humiliated.
We've been having a conversation within my family about people responsible for this, and the reality is that it isn't just the people who voted for him. There is that third of the nation who just couldn't be bothered to go vote. Some of them may have been prevented by job or proximity - lack of transportation, but that doesn't account for this huge percentage who just didn't care enough or abdicated because they didn't like either. Perhaps we also need to look at the ways in which we teach our families and children about their responsibilities as citizens. So while I'm angry at those, particularly Christians, who chose Trump for whatever misguided or evil reason, I'm also frustrated with those who after the 2020 election where people recognized their need to stand up and make a choice so we didn't end up with a Trump term then, they simply seemed to forget what happened a mere 5 years ago with the first Trump administration. And I understand that the leaders, in particular, need to be cut off from support as they have full knowledge of what they are doing. I struggle as I know people who have been deceived, and I've seen some of the garbage they have been fed. Just tonight we saw an article stating that the Maine Governor is an "insurrectionist". If that is all your echo chamber feeds you, if you are told that the world is brainwashed and you can't trust anything but what you are being fed, you are essentially trapped in a cult. So I have deep grief for these people. No amount of telling them the truth could overcome the cult like thinking that secured their votes for Trump. And while they are complicit, completely and wholly, I feel like at some point they will need grace and love and will have to confront their own responsibility for the situation we are now in. I pray they do this sooner rather than later, and I cannot give up on the hope that transformation is possible even for them. If we do not engage, then who will they know to talk to when they hit the proverbial wall that we all know is coming?
As I consider what I've written here, another thought comes to mind. I think it was John Ortberg who wrote that the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. Also the movie, "Best of Enemies" comes to mind. Angry hateful people can change. Indifferent people don't care enough to change.
Diana, every one of your comments lifts me a little out of the depression this whole chain of comments is bringing me. Thank you.
It's a struggle, and we need to encourage each other. May your Easter be blessed.
May you too have a blessed Easter. May the Easter miracle encourage us to have hope.
They are in my shit list as well
I always attributed the quote to Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor.
IT could be. John Ortberg wrote a book on the topic, and he may have quoted it there. I want to find the book in my mess of books because he said something about what he called "hurry sickness", which he said showed a lack of love because we hurry so much we devalue the lives around us. I get in a hurry so much, and thoughts like that help me look at myself and try to pull back and realize how valuable all the lives around me are.
These are hash words, but sometimes, the truth is brutal. The people who supported tRump and helped bring this destruction down upon our shoulders and upon those we love didn’t just vote in a vacuum. They knew who he was after the first horrific four years and by all the hateful and dangerous things he has said since 2015; if they supported him a second and third time, it was with full understanding of the creature they were raising up. They may have said they voted for the price of eggs or for border security, but the other propensities—racism, misogyny, religious hypocrisy, intolerance for the “other”, lack of empathy for the less fortunate—must have been simmering underneath. tRump just turned these submersed feelings up to full boil. Therefore misinformation and ignorance of the truth is no excuse. They could hear him with their own ears and see him (and January 6th) with their own eyes. It is so painful to admit his because my very best friend falls into this category, and I am just heartsick about it.
The sad fact is that Trump has given a lot of people permission to be their worst selves, to express feelings and beliefs that, as you said, were simmering inside them. Since Trump proudly says the ugly things out loud, people noe feel comfortable doing the same thing.
I have 4 siblings. One is a Trumper. We don’t talk politics around the Trumper but the rest of us have tried and failed to change his mind. I love my brother and think he is stubborn and misguided. And racist. It is painful to think that he thinks that way especially because my children were adopted and are mixed race as are my grandchildren. I don’t want to completely cut him off because our family is close otherwise. I’m still hoping that he will wake up. We share so many values and I don’t know how he can be supporting the mayhem that is going on.
I completely understand.
DJT doesn’t frighten me half as much as his followers do. Sadly, I have begun to distance from coworkers, friends and family members who embrace his beliefs. I don’t know if they will realize or care that I am doing this. But there is something fundamentally wrong with validating the people who validate him by gifting them with my proximity and friendship. I wonder what they will be thinking when I don’t come around or call any more.
Respectfully, John, I have to disagree with you on this. I am fervently anti-Trump, and I am utterly distraught over everything he is doing to this country. I have no idea how good, kind, loving people in my life can support him. But I keep thinking, what would Jesus do? I can't imagine that he would take this stand that you are taking. He would "forgive them, for they know not what they do." He would speak the truth in love, "exposing the atrocities, and caring for those under duress," but he would never say about Trump supporters that "they don't deserve proximity with us." Difficult as it is, I think we need to stay in conversation with them, while staying firm in our convictions, and continuing to push back. How can we know who might come to their senses and admit their errors? Shunning them from your presence will certainly not bring them around. I don't believe the answer is to "withhold our friendship, exclude them from our holiday gatherings, cut personal and professional ties, and practically speaking, marginalize them." (And didn't Jesus always stand with the marginalized, anyway?) Many people voted for Trump because they wanted lower prices and a more secure border. Not all of them are gleefully watching as aid is cut from the most vulnerable and federal employees are terminated, etc. Maybe it's true that "they enable it by their cowardice and silence." But haven't many of us been complicit to some extent by our own cowardice and silence through the years leading up to this? Obviously, if I need to distance myself from certain people to protect my heart and soul, I will do that. But I worry when we start passing judgment and deciding who is good enough to be welcome where "good people gather." Again, I'm thinking about how Jesus would respond to these people you are talking about severing ties with.
Jesus would overturn the tables of the moneychangers in anger. Trumpers are not "marginalized". They are hurtful, proud, and have had no consequences for their decisions to hurt others.
Absolutely, we should be angry, very angry. Let's overturn some tables. But I still don't think we should stop associating with people who are on the other side. And just to clarify what I meant about Jesus standing with the marginalized-- I'm not saying that Trumpers are marginalized. I was responding to John's opinion that we should make them the marginalized ones. And it just made me think how Jesus always stood with the marginalized. No, I do not think that Trump supports are marginalized.
Agree
Agree
The one thing I will say in response to your very thoughtful comment is that Trump's supporters are very, very willing, and some of them also take an ugly glee in insulting and demonizing Democrats, feminists, LGBTQ+ people.
These people have shoved their ignorance and hate in our faces, time and time again. When do thry pay a price for enabling a wannabee tyrant whose goal is his oen enrichment, and eho continues to use fear prejudice and hate to divide our terribly polarized nation? His supporters choose to live in their bubble of Fox news andrightwing podcasts.
It's possible to forgive someone but also to recognize that their conduct means that you no longer find them to be people with whom you share values.
Yes, it's horrible the way some people act. Absolutely. I don't understand how they can utter "Jesus" and "Trump" in the same sentence. He is antithetical to Christianity. And I agree that I may no longer share values with certain people, and I may wish to cut ties if I find the relationship is harmful to me. But I don't agree that we must "withhold our friendship" and "they don't deserve proximity to us." This only adds to the polarization.
Rose, finally! I read John’s post and thought, No. Peter asked how many times we must forgive someone who has wronged us. When Jesus said “Seven times seventy,” He didn’t mean 490 times. Theologians agree that He meant an infinite number of times. By deliberately cutting ourselves off from those who are Trumpers, we are turning ourselves into them, which is exactly the division Trump wants. Yes, speak out against racism, protest however you can - but deliberately “shun” people? No, that’s the division Trump wants.
To Rose and Bonnie: I agree with John on this and had thought about writing that we should be shunning our Trump supporting family and neighbors, which I am actively doing now. So I started my research on shunning and was surprised to find this biblical reference:
In 1 Thessalonians 5:22, we are commanded, “Abstain from every form of evil.” The Greek text employs a verb meaning “shun.” It has connotations of abhorrence, loathing, and revulsion. It is the proper response to anything impure or morally filthy.
But that was Paul writing. I find Paul less merciful than Jesus.
The parents disowned me 3 weeks before the election and told me to change my name and never call them again. I also make sure that I don't hire people who support him. I am not willing to pay my hard-earned money to a plumber, carpenter, contractor, landscaper, etc. that agrees with this horror show. In addition to researching stores and brands and who they donated to before I spend money there, like never shopping at Amazon, no matter how convenient it may seem. We have to do the extra work, but money talks.
I’m lucky and I know damn well I am. I come from a strongly Democratic family and we have very quiet Thanksgivings. I don’t have to shun anyone in my family…or my exhusband’s family.
But I do have neighbors I like very much who watch Fox. Must I shun them? I live in a very blue area but I know I run into Trumpers, occasionally. Do I shun them? Or do I wait to see if they shun me for my beliefs?
What are other people doing?
They are not our people. Racism is not OK in any way. Shun them.
It's like water and oil...
We have flown our Pride flag during the last 2 years of June in our new neighborhood, wanting to show support for our LGBTQ friends and family. My husband and I are straight. We have a lot of gay and lesbian couples in the neighborhood who are scared to talk with their neighbors for obvious reasons. We wanted to let them know we are open to meeting our neighbors, and recognize the turmoil of our country, which continues to devolve into fear and lies. In turn, we have now been shunned by the homophobes who live amongst us. Oh well. Live your life the authentic way you want. If you feel worse after talking to your neighbors, then find a new connection. If you feel better after talking to your neighbors, then stick with them. Your gut will tell you.
I'm all alone.. With my dog but there are three other widowed women on my street.. I'm engaging with them cuz we are still like minded... And oh course SUBSTACK. YOU are my family now
I'm glad you have your friends for support in your neighborhood.
Thank you
You are surrounded by like minded folks, Peggy, on your substacks. Even though we are just communicating online, I'm sending you strength for the journey and as a fellow dog lover, a belly scratch for your canine companion. They are the best when you're feeling blue.
Racism is not ok, and if they express racist views, I'd call them on it. I go with the second option, because God works in his time, and sometimes with some people it takes a long time. If they still engage, then they still might hear. I could be wrong. I'm not saying that people who support Trump aren't racist, because there has to be racism in there to not be appalled at what he is doing. At the same time, I have friends and family (more distant in both cases now) who are single-issue voters, and it is abortion. They cannot see beyond that. They don't like the treatment of immigrants, but their echo chamber is telling them it is justified and they made the "righteous" choice. They are deceived, and I grieve and mourn. It is like a death of sorts. I want to be a light in the darkness. I'm trying to learn how to do that.