Here's some positive news, My daughter is pastor for a UMW church. The congregation voted to be a reconciling church,. They make it a point to welcome LGBTQ people . She proudly waves the rainbow flag. She also works with local groups to promote understanding , Since we have that creature in the White House she has been active in protests as a speaker. I'm so proud of her.
My husband and I are the only straight couple in a tribe of gay and lesbian couples. They treat us better and more lovingly than any of our family members! We all get together for dinners, cocktails, laughter, deep conversations, and experiencing rich friendships. We quit the "church" completely because honestly, we were tired of always defending our LGBTQ+ community. The church didn't deserve anything from us or our friends. So much happier without the hypocrisy and hatred of others by so called followers of Christ.
I hope you can find a real Christian church. Church community is important, but, of course, the non-Christian type isn't what you need. Generally, an Episcopal, ELCA Lutheran, or progressive Presbyterian will be more accepting. Blessings on your journey.
Kay - As a lesbian Christian in a very accepting Presbyterian (USA) congregation, I would suggest we need both Christian and "non-Chrisrian type" communities. We need to participate in the secular as well as sacred world. Further, I really appreciate any straight couple who would leave a church because the church was not accepting of their LGBTQ friends. That is truly solidarity! Yes, there are accepting congregations in every denomination - Even Baptist! There will be more in the future, as Christianity continues to challenge patriarchal theologies!
I drive past a UMC in my community that has a sign "Welcome to everyone! Yes, we mean everyone!" I like the sign. I don't know if it's fact. (I live in a red area of the red state of Florida.). I'd move if there were a warm weather state that I could afford.
Also Unitarian. Though not a Christian church per se, it is accepting of all religions and Christians are many there. As are Atheists seeking community.
Oh, wouldn’t that be a change?!? As a lesbian, coming out after marriage to a man and 2 children, I was not surprised but so disappointed from the reaction by my so-called Christian community. My new lesbian community was much more Christ-like than anyone else. I’m grateful for the faith community and friend community I have now! My wife and children and grands are wonderful and life did get much better. Just wish these “Christians” would stop the hate.
Exactly - that’s why they don’t have a problem cutting SNAP, WIC,Federal donation to food banks, housing assistance, FEMA, Medicaid, cancer research, Veterans Benefits, including their crisis line.
If they insist God doesn’t make mistakes, then they need to open their eyes. Lying to themselves that they are good christians. Jesus said to treat each other as you would want ME to treat you.
Do they want the Almighty to treat them like they are treating this community?? If not, stop your sinning and get it straight before they meet their maker.
It's also dumb. In my church we just held a community wide funeral for the husband of a man who heads up the Pastoral Care Committee, and who cared for his husband over many years as he became ill and demented: loyally, faithfully, lovingly. Their marriage was decades long and a model for many. The bereaved was and remains a pillar of compassionate caring and the antithesis of any and all sterotypical notions about gay men.
What you are describing, if the Conservative so-called "Christians", were to actually act as Jesus instructed, it would truly be Heaven on earth. Why can't they understand that?
"Pro-life" is more accurately described as forced birth. If these people were actually pro-life,they would be far less judgmental, and they would be actively working with pro-choice individuals to promote policies that would benefit womtn and families-access to low cost health and child care,age-appropriate sexuality education and access to all methods of contraception so that individuals coukd make the best decisions for themselves.
One of my nieces is afraid of coming out to our family (she came out to us because she knew we were allies), because we have Trump supporters in the family. She can't bring her partner to any of the family events, because most of the family don't even know she exists. I don't blame her for a second - the same Trump supporters attacked me during Thanksgiving dinner because I am an immigrant.
Maria, how disheartening that you were attacked during Thanksgiving Dinner... a meal first shared by Native People with the Pilgrim immigrant newcomers.
If you decide to attend Thanksgiving again, may I suggest you find and present a prayer or short written piece about the first Thanksgiving.
After all most of us are the descendants of immigrants!
Everyone who calls themself a Christian has, undoubtedly, done something which the Bible condemns, whether it's eating shellfish, divorcing, or dishonoring one's parents. But something like same-sex orientation, being so hard-wired, is never going to tempt some people. So for these Christians you talk about, condemning LGBTQ is a "sin" they'll never commit, so they would prefer to focus on that (and hope that God prioritizes that "sin") because it's easy for them to abstain and feel superior, instead of the myriad things they do in their lives which the Bible also speaks against.
The subject and adverse reaction to LGBTQ is like a virus to ultra conservatives. If they don't talk the conservative talk on the subject they're afraid they'll be identified with that group and therefore a target of said labelling and bullying by their peers. The whole cycle is juvenile and cowardly.
I’m happy people see these things more, but fucking hell! Many of us have been screaming about this since the 1980s. So, I’m feeling cranky, bc all of this bullshit is a direct result of that movement you participated in. So, welcome to the party.
I’m very grateful for John too and look forward to his posts, but that wasn’t my point. My point is this bullshit has been going in for decades, and those churches propagate hatred against the vulnerable, which is a sick irony. They create an us vs. them narrative that is dangerous. It shouldn’t be the surprise it is to so many that we now find ourselves here. It’s infuriating. “We all come from someplace” is not helpful here.
It seems since Nicea, or at least 200 AD, when Bishop(s) decided that gnosticism, or self-revelatory spiritual experience was named heresy, and that religions/political leaders were needed for one to experience God (or whatever we shall call it), that religio/political leaders have been instilling hate, barbarism and countless inhumane and horrific acts. Christian nationalism is the latest ugly face of hatred and self righteousness. None of us are less than others, (except for MTG, perhaps)...all deserve to be seen for their common humanity.
The Evangelical church is (and always was) a political movement hiding behind a religion. Unfortunately for them, their politics have gotten too big to hide behind their religion anymore. The Christian Nationalists are just the latest expression of this heresy. Yes, I said it. They're heretics. They lust for temporal power over everyone else. When you see it this way, the whole picture of what's going on changes like a kaleidoscope.
Here's some positive news, My daughter is pastor for a UMW church. The congregation voted to be a reconciling church,. They make it a point to welcome LGBTQ people . She proudly waves the rainbow flag. She also works with local groups to promote understanding , Since we have that creature in the White House she has been active in protests as a speaker. I'm so proud of her.
A true Christian loves ALL life EQUALLY. The people you describe are not Christians. Period.
My husband and I are the only straight couple in a tribe of gay and lesbian couples. They treat us better and more lovingly than any of our family members! We all get together for dinners, cocktails, laughter, deep conversations, and experiencing rich friendships. We quit the "church" completely because honestly, we were tired of always defending our LGBTQ+ community. The church didn't deserve anything from us or our friends. So much happier without the hypocrisy and hatred of others by so called followers of Christ.
I hope you can find a real Christian church. Church community is important, but, of course, the non-Christian type isn't what you need. Generally, an Episcopal, ELCA Lutheran, or progressive Presbyterian will be more accepting. Blessings on your journey.
Kay - As a lesbian Christian in a very accepting Presbyterian (USA) congregation, I would suggest we need both Christian and "non-Chrisrian type" communities. We need to participate in the secular as well as sacred world. Further, I really appreciate any straight couple who would leave a church because the church was not accepting of their LGBTQ friends. That is truly solidarity! Yes, there are accepting congregations in every denomination - Even Baptist! There will be more in the future, as Christianity continues to challenge patriarchal theologies!
I drive past a UMC in my community that has a sign "Welcome to everyone! Yes, we mean everyone!" I like the sign. I don't know if it's fact. (I live in a red area of the red state of Florida.). I'd move if there were a warm weather state that I could afford.
Also Unitarian. Though not a Christian church per se, it is accepting of all religions and Christians are many there. As are Atheists seeking community.
And United Church of Christ.
Really! I didn't know that. I thought they were more fundamentalist. Thank for the knowledge.
Church of Christ is fundamentalist. The United Church of Christ is very progressive, probably the most liberal of mainstream Protestant denominations.
UCC. org
Oh, wouldn’t that be a change?!? As a lesbian, coming out after marriage to a man and 2 children, I was not surprised but so disappointed from the reaction by my so-called Christian community. My new lesbian community was much more Christ-like than anyone else. I’m grateful for the faith community and friend community I have now! My wife and children and grands are wonderful and life did get much better. Just wish these “Christians” would stop the hate.
Pro-life people aren't pro-life. They are pro-birth - period. Once that baby is born, they simply don't give a damn what happens to them.
Exactly - that’s why they don’t have a problem cutting SNAP, WIC,Federal donation to food banks, housing assistance, FEMA, Medicaid, cancer research, Veterans Benefits, including their crisis line.
If they insist God doesn’t make mistakes, then they need to open their eyes. Lying to themselves that they are good christians. Jesus said to treat each other as you would want ME to treat you.
Do they want the Almighty to treat them like they are treating this community?? If not, stop your sinning and get it straight before they meet their maker.
It's also dumb. In my church we just held a community wide funeral for the husband of a man who heads up the Pastoral Care Committee, and who cared for his husband over many years as he became ill and demented: loyally, faithfully, lovingly. Their marriage was decades long and a model for many. The bereaved was and remains a pillar of compassionate caring and the antithesis of any and all sterotypical notions about gay men.
What you are describing, if the Conservative so-called "Christians", were to actually act as Jesus instructed, it would truly be Heaven on earth. Why can't they understand that?
"Pro-life" is more accurately described as forced birth. If these people were actually pro-life,they would be far less judgmental, and they would be actively working with pro-choice individuals to promote policies that would benefit womtn and families-access to low cost health and child care,age-appropriate sexuality education and access to all methods of contraception so that individuals coukd make the best decisions for themselves.
I have little faith in change coming from group of people who justify their beliefs on a book written thousands of years ago by power hungry men.
How about do no harm and mind your own business.
One of my nieces is afraid of coming out to our family (she came out to us because she knew we were allies), because we have Trump supporters in the family. She can't bring her partner to any of the family events, because most of the family don't even know she exists. I don't blame her for a second - the same Trump supporters attacked me during Thanksgiving dinner because I am an immigrant.
Maria, how disheartening that you were attacked during Thanksgiving Dinner... a meal first shared by Native People with the Pilgrim immigrant newcomers.
If you decide to attend Thanksgiving again, may I suggest you find and present a prayer or short written piece about the first Thanksgiving.
After all most of us are the descendants of immigrants!
If all are created "in the image of God" (Gen. 1:27), how dare they question anyone's intrinsic, God-given value?
Everyone who calls themself a Christian has, undoubtedly, done something which the Bible condemns, whether it's eating shellfish, divorcing, or dishonoring one's parents. But something like same-sex orientation, being so hard-wired, is never going to tempt some people. So for these Christians you talk about, condemning LGBTQ is a "sin" they'll never commit, so they would prefer to focus on that (and hope that God prioritizes that "sin") because it's easy for them to abstain and feel superior, instead of the myriad things they do in their lives which the Bible also speaks against.
That is a VERY good point!!
The subject and adverse reaction to LGBTQ is like a virus to ultra conservatives. If they don't talk the conservative talk on the subject they're afraid they'll be identified with that group and therefore a target of said labelling and bullying by their peers. The whole cycle is juvenile and cowardly.
I’m happy people see these things more, but fucking hell! Many of us have been screaming about this since the 1980s. So, I’m feeling cranky, bc all of this bullshit is a direct result of that movement you participated in. So, welcome to the party.
I, for one, am grateful Johnnis now in our progressive camp. We all came from here from somewhere.
I’m very grateful for John too and look forward to his posts, but that wasn’t my point. My point is this bullshit has been going in for decades, and those churches propagate hatred against the vulnerable, which is a sick irony. They create an us vs. them narrative that is dangerous. It shouldn’t be the surprise it is to so many that we now find ourselves here. It’s infuriating. “We all come from someplace” is not helpful here.
It seems since Nicea, or at least 200 AD, when Bishop(s) decided that gnosticism, or self-revelatory spiritual experience was named heresy, and that religions/political leaders were needed for one to experience God (or whatever we shall call it), that religio/political leaders have been instilling hate, barbarism and countless inhumane and horrific acts. Christian nationalism is the latest ugly face of hatred and self righteousness. None of us are less than others, (except for MTG, perhaps)...all deserve to be seen for their common humanity.
The Evangelical church is (and always was) a political movement hiding behind a religion. Unfortunately for them, their politics have gotten too big to hide behind their religion anymore. The Christian Nationalists are just the latest expression of this heresy. Yes, I said it. They're heretics. They lust for temporal power over everyone else. When you see it this way, the whole picture of what's going on changes like a kaleidoscope.