A few days ago, I told my husband I hated every American who voted for this as well as those who didn’t vote. Not an all-consuming cancerous hatred. But an utter rejection of them and their right to have space in my life ever again. We must hate this thing to have any hope of defeating it.
You know, honestly, I can't even figure out, which ones of them I despise most. like you, it's not an enraged hatred but more like deep, thorough disdain. Like they are a lower creature of some sort. I don't even want to compare them to leeches and cockroaches, because even those play a role in the eco system, they have SOME KIND of use. These people? What good are they for?
I feel your point of view. Jesus was a a real human living being. Perfect in every way. I have such disdain for organized religion, but I continue to have faith in this one person and that’s all I need to get me through the day.
He was a real person! I however studied history and religion. Religion was suppression of truths! If religion did not exist well who knows but computers probably would have come around much sooner than now. Humanity is the cause and reason to much suffering as we were always killing each other back in the days and still so. So speaking as one who grew up in the church at least I know trigger from wrong and share that with my own kids. I held them accountable for every wrong thing they did and they grew up to be amazing humans even though I did not raise them in the church, but I did. I took those lessons and fast forward.
Living a Life with compassion and love towards one another is more Christian than a life "declared" as being Christian but disregard the "others" and inflict pain onto them
I remain an atheist, and have no interest in any gods except as literature and history. We must do what we can in the interest of justice and knowledge while we are here. I suspect when we die we have exactly as much afterlife as a burned out lightbulb, and that is fine with me.
As always you put into words what my heart feels and thinks. I do not think I have ever loathed anyone more than the orange nightmare and those letting this happen. Pure hateful actions with no humanity visible. He is America’s hitler!
John, this sentiment goes right along with the concept of the grace of God can reach anyone. While God never changes, and may extend grace even to 47, a malignant narcissist who sees no reason to need grace or to change can and will reject it. Rejecting love, he becomes synonymous with the malevolence he projects everywhere he goes, and with everything he does. That is worthy of my hate.
Trump is the only person I've ever thought was beyond redemption. There is nothing redeeming about him, no hope for new goodness and humility. He has no purpose on earth but to destroy and commit all the hateful, cruel, merciless actions that we all hear cited over & over. He and his upside down Bible perfectly reflect his fraudulence. My belief is predicated on witnessing, during my 50 years in A.A., thousands of men & women who have looked hopeless but turned their lives around, to become loving, giving, forgiving, kind, empathetic humble beings. Miracles happen but with nary a chance for Trump and certain members of his family. Hate? You betcha.
Josie, I have believed that no one is beyond redemption—but I have been questioning that lately. Is there anything that could make Donald realize how much he needs redemption? From where I sit, I can’t see that there is. He thinks he’s perfect. During his first term I read that he told an interviewer that he’d never confessed his sins to God because he didn’t think he’d sinned. He also said that he didn’t go to God because he (Donald) thought he was doing just fine and didn’t need God’s help.
Mary M -- Don't ask me why I think this, but seems to me his redemption might have taken place at an earlier age. Pre Roy Cohn perhaps? His beliefs are so entrenched, especially about himself at age 78, it doesn't possible now. It is possible a cataclysmic event can break through walls of self-delusion, but at 78, I don't see it. This discussion is going to send me to my text called "Abnormal Psychology" to see if the concept of redemption is discussed altho' that word won't be used. Thanks for your excellent comment.
I did not think about looking in an abnormal psych text! 👍🏻 From what I’ve read about Donald, he’s always put himself first and has done whatever it takes to get what he wants. Wonder if he had one of those “lightning strike” moments he’d start to see what an ass he is? 🤔🤔
Most likely not. My birth mother who was a horrible abuser of us children actually had the gall to tell my brother before she died that she might have made a mistake or two. She saw herself above the pain she caused.
Thank you for being the ONE person who affirms how angry I am at Trump and his cruelty towards all vulnerable, and that Jesus would have been so righteously angry also! Thank you!
I was a minister for 6 years, and spirituality is very important to me!
Thank you for your sharing, Josie. You bring up an excellent point! Millions of people around the world have changed their lives and become good, loving people. I do not see his narcissism ever changing.
Trump is already living in hell and doesn't require our hate to continue in that state. As a malignant narcissist he is incapable of love, appreciation, and much else that makes life livable. No one truly loves him, either, as his relationships are all transactional. When he looks in the mirror he sees a mask of rage, vengeance, disguised panic and gluttony, as well as the ravages of the old age he tries so hard to disguise. That's a pretty good description of hell IMHO. So I don't need to add fuel to that fire, or to attach myself to him by a hateful obsession. I will, however, never stop hating what he's doing.
Very much the Hungry Ghost that Eastern traditions speak of. Driven by greed and malice in their lives they have tiny mouths and throats but swollen stomachs in their endless search for more, more....but unable to be satisfied.
Leigh — Your point is well taken. I happen to believe an obsession & addiction to any
emotion is unhealthy. I think most commenter's aren’t dwelling or obsessing over their strong anti-Trump feelings but are using hate for lack of another word of intense vitriol.
When we were still speaking to one another, I had extended family who insisted that Romans 13 meant that in order to be a True Christian™ I had to “honor, love and subject myself to Donald Trump because he was God’s appointed leader for the United States.”
My response: “The same way you loved, honored and subjected yourselves to Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and Joe Biden when they were President?” (They despised these Presidents and were quite vocal — and intense — about their hatred.)
I’m being “punished” for this comment by being removed from family chat and being “shunned” by MAGA extended family. I could care less. I’ve resigned as chair of the family reunion: if they want a reunion, they can organize it themselves and have a big MAGA-fest. I’m done.
I’m planning my piano “re-debut” this summer, featuring pieces I’ve transcribed from organ to piano. I’ll let them know about the performance a month after the recital.
Good on you for the reply comment about all Presidents. I love that rebuttal. I’m also sorry this has led to so much family devision — and since DJT first came onto the scene 10 years ago. In my naivety I could not see some of my own adult siblings (living in a deep red state) hatred for social justice and disdain for diversity-equity-inclusion and our democracy until my blinders just fell off one day. I ended contact with a handful of family almost 2 years ago. Behind the scenes, from what I’ve been told, they are still speaking ill of me and my ‘dirty hippie liberal ways’. And so be it.
Stay in the light, friend. When darkness tries to snuff out your goodness, turn up the flame.
I resigned as family peacemaker in a totally different situation. My sister is a malignant narcissist, and I was always expected to keep the peace and keep quiet about her abuse. After my mother’s death at 97 this past July, I stopped. My therapist likened it to ending an abusive marriage. I think our country is an abusive relationship with Felon 47.
Mark, I am so sorry to hear about this civil war in your (and so many) families. I hope you experience the profound commonality and affirmation of goodness and light we share here. Kindness and care as well mutual horror of this … I don’t even have the words strong enough to capture the horror and evil that is DT and his followers.
I am a Unitarian Universalist (and atheist). One of our values says, “We declare that each person is inherently worthy and has the right to flourish with dignity, love, and compassion.”
I see nothing inherently worthy about DT. Like there is nothing worthy about a devouring cancer.
Anyway. I feel a community in these comments and I hope you do too.
I’m 84, cast my first vote in 1959 for JFK. I’m a survivor of WWII, Korean, Vietnam, I was the child who waited for my dad and uncles to come home in 1945. I’ve seen a lot of hate and narcissistic people, but this one is overboard. I’ve lost relatives including my child and friends because I didn’t vote for him. When I asked them what appeals to you about him? The answer was “well he says things I can’t say” so that’s the attraction? I can only pray God takes him home and teaches him about love and compassion for others. We need to pray and be thankful for the people who do share their love as you do. Thank you for sharing this message 🙏🏻
My sister and I have lost our brother and his family, but I cannot even imagine the pain of losing your children to that horrible person and his actions. May God bless you.
As former conservative columnist Bill Kristol wrote today:
It’s right to be disgusted when you see Donald Trump demonizing law-abiding immigrants and Elon Musk praising the Alternative für Deutschland. It’s right to be repulsed by the stupidity and the cruelty of their policies. It’s right to be appalled by their admiration for dictators. It’s right to be repelled by the racists who flock to them, like the new acting under secretary of state for public diplomacy, Darren Beattie (who once said that “competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work”), and key DOGE staffer (until yesterday) Marko Elez (who boasted, “Just for the record, I was racist before it was cool”).
It’s right to say “no” to all that. It’s reasonable to make saying no to all that the first principle of our politics. For today, it’s urgent to say no to our looming nightmare.
For me I don't need Bill Kristol or anyone else's permission to say "no way" to Donald Trump and his enablers. For me it is not a choice to resist rather being true to who I am and how I was raised. Today I was remembering 1994 and the "Willie Horton" ads by Daddy Bush. Just exactly like the Liken Riley ads or Trump calling for executing the Central Park Five. On a lighter note it is Super Bowl Sunday- Go Eagles!!
We are looking at the most peculiar cult of Christianity in history. Its Creed is simple: Maximize Human Suffering. In another time and place, the Church would have rejected them as heretics.
His every act is intentionally cruel. To take funds that help the poor, the diseased, the hungry, and then on top of it to withdraw the security for Mr. Biden? There is nothing but revenge and evil in this man. I can't think of a single kindness I've ever observed from him. Or if there was a smile for a while, as soon as someone did not follow his order, they were destroyed in whatever way he had in his power. Thank you for some justification for my deep feelings. I can still pray for him.
Thank you so much. I, too, have been struggling with this hatred towards Trump and his spawn. I am thinking of leaving my church because of Trump’s hold on it. I moved to the red state of Oklahoma and feel like a fish out of water. I believe I am subjected to “taxation without representation” as my congressman and senators constantly vote against all of my interests. It is comforting to hear your words.
Thanks so much! I started writing more when he won the election (again!). It's my way to purge. Once it's on paper, I can breathe a bit better until the next horrible thing he does. It's great therapy. I've never been more prolific in my life!
Thank you for this! I was taught the same thing, that we don’t hate anyone, but I feel relief when I say I hate this man and all who stand with him. He and his enablers are definitely cancers and do not know represent Christ. Isaiah 5:20-21…Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! God will have the last say. Onward!
John this is very powerful. My mother used to say Hate is a powerful word. Well these days many acts of evil conjure up that feeling for me. All I can say is I truly believe there is no hope for some and he will never change or be saved. There is too much damage in his soul. And the country and its citizens are paying the price. God help us all
Amen to that. I have never liked the orange stain, well before he went into politics. Thank you for validating my hatred of him and his minions and all who seek to hurt people rather than help them.
I admit I try to find the best in people, or some redeeming qualities, but as far as Trump, Musk, Bezos and Zuck go, I can find nothing to convince me that they have any empathy or compassion for anyone but themselves. As the saying goes, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. They are all miserable men who will never be satisfied. I have something they will never have. I have enough.
A few days ago, I told my husband I hated every American who voted for this as well as those who didn’t vote. Not an all-consuming cancerous hatred. But an utter rejection of them and their right to have space in my life ever again. We must hate this thing to have any hope of defeating it.
You know, honestly, I can't even figure out, which ones of them I despise most. like you, it's not an enraged hatred but more like deep, thorough disdain. Like they are a lower creature of some sort. I don't even want to compare them to leeches and cockroaches, because even those play a role in the eco system, they have SOME KIND of use. These people? What good are they for?
I'm an atheist, and find myself refreshed because of you
I feel your point of view. Jesus was a a real human living being. Perfect in every way. I have such disdain for organized religion, but I continue to have faith in this one person and that’s all I need to get me through the day.
He was a real person! I however studied history and religion. Religion was suppression of truths! If religion did not exist well who knows but computers probably would have come around much sooner than now. Humanity is the cause and reason to much suffering as we were always killing each other back in the days and still so. So speaking as one who grew up in the church at least I know trigger from wrong and share that with my own kids. I held them accountable for every wrong thing they did and they grew up to be amazing humans even though I did not raise them in the church, but I did. I took those lessons and fast forward.
If that helps you cope, hooray.
Living a Life with compassion and love towards one another is more Christian than a life "declared" as being Christian but disregard the "others" and inflict pain onto them
Actually I’m not into the church. Very hypocritical. Surprise you on that but I admire him and his teachings. It’s all about truths.
I remain an atheist, and have no interest in any gods except as literature and history. We must do what we can in the interest of justice and knowledge while we are here. I suspect when we die we have exactly as much afterlife as a burned out lightbulb, and that is fine with me.
I came to comments to say similarly. I am a lifelong atheist and I find deep consonance with your vision and understanding, John.
As always you put into words what my heart feels and thinks. I do not think I have ever loathed anyone more than the orange nightmare and those letting this happen. Pure hateful actions with no humanity visible. He is America’s hitler!
Yes, very true.
John, this sentiment goes right along with the concept of the grace of God can reach anyone. While God never changes, and may extend grace even to 47, a malignant narcissist who sees no reason to need grace or to change can and will reject it. Rejecting love, he becomes synonymous with the malevolence he projects everywhere he goes, and with everything he does. That is worthy of my hate.
Trump is the only person I've ever thought was beyond redemption. There is nothing redeeming about him, no hope for new goodness and humility. He has no purpose on earth but to destroy and commit all the hateful, cruel, merciless actions that we all hear cited over & over. He and his upside down Bible perfectly reflect his fraudulence. My belief is predicated on witnessing, during my 50 years in A.A., thousands of men & women who have looked hopeless but turned their lives around, to become loving, giving, forgiving, kind, empathetic humble beings. Miracles happen but with nary a chance for Trump and certain members of his family. Hate? You betcha.
Josie, I have believed that no one is beyond redemption—but I have been questioning that lately. Is there anything that could make Donald realize how much he needs redemption? From where I sit, I can’t see that there is. He thinks he’s perfect. During his first term I read that he told an interviewer that he’d never confessed his sins to God because he didn’t think he’d sinned. He also said that he didn’t go to God because he (Donald) thought he was doing just fine and didn’t need God’s help.
Mary M -- Don't ask me why I think this, but seems to me his redemption might have taken place at an earlier age. Pre Roy Cohn perhaps? His beliefs are so entrenched, especially about himself at age 78, it doesn't possible now. It is possible a cataclysmic event can break through walls of self-delusion, but at 78, I don't see it. This discussion is going to send me to my text called "Abnormal Psychology" to see if the concept of redemption is discussed altho' that word won't be used. Thanks for your excellent comment.
I did not think about looking in an abnormal psych text! 👍🏻 From what I’ve read about Donald, he’s always put himself first and has done whatever it takes to get what he wants. Wonder if he had one of those “lightning strike” moments he’d start to see what an ass he is? 🤔🤔
Most likely not. My birth mother who was a horrible abuser of us children actually had the gall to tell my brother before she died that she might have made a mistake or two. She saw herself above the pain she caused.
Thank you for being the ONE person who affirms how angry I am at Trump and his cruelty towards all vulnerable, and that Jesus would have been so righteously angry also! Thank you!
I was a minister for 6 years, and spirituality is very important to me!
Janette
His mentor, Roy Cohn, I define as the most evil American of the 20th century.
Until now.
Roy Cohn was one sick dude—& I mean sick in that, by his actions, he comes off as pure evil.
Roy Cohn died from AIDS — saying, to the very end, that he was not gay (even though he acquired the disease from sex with men).
Thank you for your sharing, Josie. You bring up an excellent point! Millions of people around the world have changed their lives and become good, loving people. I do not see his narcissism ever changing.
Trump is already living in hell and doesn't require our hate to continue in that state. As a malignant narcissist he is incapable of love, appreciation, and much else that makes life livable. No one truly loves him, either, as his relationships are all transactional. When he looks in the mirror he sees a mask of rage, vengeance, disguised panic and gluttony, as well as the ravages of the old age he tries so hard to disguise. That's a pretty good description of hell IMHO. So I don't need to add fuel to that fire, or to attach myself to him by a hateful obsession. I will, however, never stop hating what he's doing.
Very much the Hungry Ghost that Eastern traditions speak of. Driven by greed and malice in their lives they have tiny mouths and throats but swollen stomachs in their endless search for more, more....but unable to be satisfied.
Leigh — Your point is well taken. I happen to believe an obsession & addiction to any
emotion is unhealthy. I think most commenter's aren’t dwelling or obsessing over their strong anti-Trump feelings but are using hate for lack of another word of intense vitriol.
I have often thought that just being who they are, for some people is punisment. Unfortunately, their toxic impact poisons everyone else.
Excellent! You expressed my thoughts. Thank you.
Wow. I am going to quote you.
When we were still speaking to one another, I had extended family who insisted that Romans 13 meant that in order to be a True Christian™ I had to “honor, love and subject myself to Donald Trump because he was God’s appointed leader for the United States.”
My response: “The same way you loved, honored and subjected yourselves to Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and Joe Biden when they were President?” (They despised these Presidents and were quite vocal — and intense — about their hatred.)
I’m being “punished” for this comment by being removed from family chat and being “shunned” by MAGA extended family. I could care less. I’ve resigned as chair of the family reunion: if they want a reunion, they can organize it themselves and have a big MAGA-fest. I’m done.
I’m planning my piano “re-debut” this summer, featuring pieces I’ve transcribed from organ to piano. I’ll let them know about the performance a month after the recital.
Good on you for the reply comment about all Presidents. I love that rebuttal. I’m also sorry this has led to so much family devision — and since DJT first came onto the scene 10 years ago. In my naivety I could not see some of my own adult siblings (living in a deep red state) hatred for social justice and disdain for diversity-equity-inclusion and our democracy until my blinders just fell off one day. I ended contact with a handful of family almost 2 years ago. Behind the scenes, from what I’ve been told, they are still speaking ill of me and my ‘dirty hippie liberal ways’. And so be it.
Stay in the light, friend. When darkness tries to snuff out your goodness, turn up the flame.
Thank you!
I'm DONE! I resigned from the family Peacemaker on November 5th. I'm okay with not having any contact.
I resigned as family peacemaker in a totally different situation. My sister is a malignant narcissist, and I was always expected to keep the peace and keep quiet about her abuse. After my mother’s death at 97 this past July, I stopped. My therapist likened it to ending an abusive marriage. I think our country is an abusive relationship with Felon 47.
Mark, I am so sorry to hear about this civil war in your (and so many) families. I hope you experience the profound commonality and affirmation of goodness and light we share here. Kindness and care as well mutual horror of this … I don’t even have the words strong enough to capture the horror and evil that is DT and his followers.
I am a Unitarian Universalist (and atheist). One of our values says, “We declare that each person is inherently worthy and has the right to flourish with dignity, love, and compassion.”
I see nothing inherently worthy about DT. Like there is nothing worthy about a devouring cancer.
Anyway. I feel a community in these comments and I hope you do too.
From a 72 year old retired Presbyterian (USA) pastor, thank you for saying so clearly what I tried to say for 42 years. Absolutely brilliant.
I’m 84, cast my first vote in 1959 for JFK. I’m a survivor of WWII, Korean, Vietnam, I was the child who waited for my dad and uncles to come home in 1945. I’ve seen a lot of hate and narcissistic people, but this one is overboard. I’ve lost relatives including my child and friends because I didn’t vote for him. When I asked them what appeals to you about him? The answer was “well he says things I can’t say” so that’s the attraction? I can only pray God takes him home and teaches him about love and compassion for others. We need to pray and be thankful for the people who do share their love as you do. Thank you for sharing this message 🙏🏻
Carole, thank you for taking the time to write. I have lost both of my children to this vile narcissist. I pray for all of us. Many Blessings to you.
My sister and I have lost our brother and his family, but I cannot even imagine the pain of losing your children to that horrible person and his actions. May God bless you.
Thanks, Linda. It’s tough but we’ll get through this too.
As former conservative columnist Bill Kristol wrote today:
It’s right to be disgusted when you see Donald Trump demonizing law-abiding immigrants and Elon Musk praising the Alternative für Deutschland. It’s right to be repulsed by the stupidity and the cruelty of their policies. It’s right to be appalled by their admiration for dictators. It’s right to be repelled by the racists who flock to them, like the new acting under secretary of state for public diplomacy, Darren Beattie (who once said that “competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work”), and key DOGE staffer (until yesterday) Marko Elez (who boasted, “Just for the record, I was racist before it was cool”).
It’s right to say “no” to all that. It’s reasonable to make saying no to all that the first principle of our politics. For today, it’s urgent to say no to our looming nightmare.
For me I don't need Bill Kristol or anyone else's permission to say "no way" to Donald Trump and his enablers. For me it is not a choice to resist rather being true to who I am and how I was raised. Today I was remembering 1994 and the "Willie Horton" ads by Daddy Bush. Just exactly like the Liken Riley ads or Trump calling for executing the Central Park Five. On a lighter note it is Super Bowl Sunday- Go Eagles!!
We are looking at the most peculiar cult of Christianity in history. Its Creed is simple: Maximize Human Suffering. In another time and place, the Church would have rejected them as heretics.
His every act is intentionally cruel. To take funds that help the poor, the diseased, the hungry, and then on top of it to withdraw the security for Mr. Biden? There is nothing but revenge and evil in this man. I can't think of a single kindness I've ever observed from him. Or if there was a smile for a while, as soon as someone did not follow his order, they were destroyed in whatever way he had in his power. Thank you for some justification for my deep feelings. I can still pray for him.
Thank you so much. I, too, have been struggling with this hatred towards Trump and his spawn. I am thinking of leaving my church because of Trump’s hold on it. I moved to the red state of Oklahoma and feel like a fish out of water. I believe I am subjected to “taxation without representation” as my congressman and senators constantly vote against all of my interests. It is comforting to hear your words.
I would leave Oklahoma as fast I could!
I've been struggling with the hate aspect too. I wrote this on Inauguration Day to try and process it. I think I captured my feelings well.
Inauguration Day
Inauguration Day
Mass Deportation Day
Humiliation-to-be-an-American Day
Shameful
Hateful
Vengeful
This time, not just him
This time, with billionaire backing
This time, leaving even more lives destroyed
So many questions floating in and out
The pain I felt in 2016 is nothing compared to this
Why… would so many vote for him AGAIN?
How… is this possible in my country?
When…will this stop?
Four years? I wouldn’t bet on it
Our country is infected and the infection is growing
It feeds off hatred
And even I hate
Even I hate…
I never thought it possible but…
There it is
My early catholic school upbringing makes me feel bad about hating
Didn’t Jesus forgive those who crucified him
Difference is “for they know not what they do” is today untrue
They know what they’re doing
They love what they’re doing
I hate them for that
Yes, that includes those who voted him into office
This “grab them by the pussy” guy
This “she’s too ugly to rape” guy
This “election was stolen” guy
Him?
To you he is a god? Him?
The one who led an insurrection on our democracy…
The one who spurs hate with every breath he takes…
Him?
Really?
I have nothing more to say to you except
Happy Martin Luther King Day
You will never change me
I will seek out the helpers
I will seek out the healers
I will seek out those who will stand up to this vile expression of a “man”
Your hate is strong, but my love is stronger
His lies are prolific but the truth will set me free
What excellent writing! Thank you!
Thanks so much! I started writing more when he won the election (again!). It's my way to purge. Once it's on paper, I can breathe a bit better until the next horrible thing he does. It's great therapy. I've never been more prolific in my life!
I’m glad you write. It helps you and it also helps us. (Plus you are an excellent writer!) Thank you!
You are so sweet. Thank you for the encouragement!
Thank you for this! I was taught the same thing, that we don’t hate anyone, but I feel relief when I say I hate this man and all who stand with him. He and his enablers are definitely cancers and do not know represent Christ. Isaiah 5:20-21…Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! God will have the last say. Onward!
John this is very powerful. My mother used to say Hate is a powerful word. Well these days many acts of evil conjure up that feeling for me. All I can say is I truly believe there is no hope for some and he will never change or be saved. There is too much damage in his soul. And the country and its citizens are paying the price. God help us all
Amen to that. I have never liked the orange stain, well before he went into politics. Thank you for validating my hatred of him and his minions and all who seek to hurt people rather than help them.
I admit I try to find the best in people, or some redeeming qualities, but as far as Trump, Musk, Bezos and Zuck go, I can find nothing to convince me that they have any empathy or compassion for anyone but themselves. As the saying goes, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. They are all miserable men who will never be satisfied. I have something they will never have. I have enough.
Yes, so agree. Preach on wise minister and shake us out of our fear of appearing too angry.