Thank you, John, for expressing in words what I have been feeling for some time now. I am a Catholic and my faith is very important to me. I stopped attending my parish in 2016 when our priest told us we had to vote for Trump to be faithful to the church. Every priest has an election year message reminding us to search our hearts before voting and to consider the promises made at our confirmation, but in all the years I have attending mass I never heard a priest tell us who to vote for! I had worked in the parish for 10 years and knew he hated women but still was shocked by this blatant partisanship. I attended mass in other places until he was transferred. Back in my own parish, I still wonder why the parish didn’t rise up as one to call for his removal, but my town is very red, so I suppose that question is answered. I was not raised Catholic, but wanted to be from a young age. My mother n sisters were Evangelicals on the extreme. My mother turned her back on everything she raised me to believe in, falling prey to my sisters’ teachings. I fought to hold my family together even tho my sisters nearly turned their backs on me when I formally joined the Catholic church. The messaging of evangelicals turns people inside out and I don’t understand why. The situation you described happens in all religions, and I usually tell myself it is because churches are run by flawed human beings, not by Jesus, but I fail to understand why those leaders joyfully encourage people to hate, to exclude, to be judgmental? I’ve seen posts from some Christian pastors saying they get mocked for sermons about the Sermon on the Mount, by parishioners who tell them it’s outmoded. Why would anyone prefer petty vengeance over God’s love for us? I do not understand the world today.
Gail, as someone who is familiar with The Church, you know that parish priest was not acting according to Scripture or his calling. You are astute enough to see some politicians for who & what they are. You are right not to play along or support them. There are so many churches out there who are on the right track. Seek & you will find. There will be others like you.
A Liberal Christian that believes my dog has a soul, and I exist on the edge of these groups.
But I have found a FaceBook group of serious dog people, across the nation, who are seriously active as Democrat liberals. Among that group, I found Christ Followers. Sanity. Hopefilled discussions.
I have a suggestion for you, John.
Since you post almost every day.
Could you provide one statement every day that your followers could pick up and pass along to their following. A short paragraph of helpful news or gathered wisdom that can be a tool used to support Liberal Christianity.
I share your writings a lot but for my fringy readers an impactful paragraph would be absorbed so much better.
A lead paraphraph in Italics that could be passed around the world like a link in like thinking, promoting the recognition of its existance.
Thank you. There are others, but you are the best and most focused.
If I run into a powerful sratement that I want to revisit for an extended period of time, I write it on "my bathroom mirror", right where my eyes go.
I used to have a random thought of the day where I posted a possibly controversial political/religious idea on my Facebook page, posed as a question (for my other-side-of-the-fence friends).
Thank you John for your courage to express your true feelings. As a former pastor I too, am dismayed, disappointed and sometimes feeling hopeless about the state of the Church. But as a follower of Jesus, it is love that continues to move me to not give up on my faith but rather to love others even more, no matter how difficult. I love your work and your words John, keep the faith brother.
Thanks for the kind words. As you know, perhaps especially in ministry, we see a lot more than we'd like about the inner workings of the Church, which sometimes makes us hyper aware of the sickness. It's a continual effort to separate Jesus from the followers of Jesus, and to separate them from the toxic collective expressions of faith.
Well, despite my personal experiences of the past couple of weeks, I do not believe the Church is a failed experiment. We are all just sinners saved by grace, stumbling our way around in the darkness when the Light is so near at hand. As humans we identify with the accused, rarely the accuser, even when we actually have more in common with the accuser. Someone who hurt me very badly 20 years ago, had a major heart attack 2 weeks ago & despite prompt medical attention & a quadruple bypass, he died a week ago. He never apologized to me for his actions. His work on earth was done. I am grateful I am not the grieving widow & I’m still here trying to make things better for the world in some small way. It’s a huge job for one person, but in concert with millions of other concerned, loving people it can be done, with or without The Church. Way, way too many people have been harmed by The Church to the point they cannot bring themselves to darken the door again. My heart breaks for them.
I surely do understand your predicament. I know you’ll figure it all out for yourself eventually. 🥰 it happened to me at 50. I’m 76 now. I believe that appreciation is of far more value than formal worship. Best wishes to you on your journey. Take care please.
I have found hope in a liturgical church. The confession, the Eucharist, the prayers of the people, the Nicene Creed. I am strengthened by reciting the words with everyone else. No electronic music, no light show, no fake emotion; just community and hospitality and a reason to rejoice!
Toward the end of his life, my mentor, the late missiologist, Ralph D. Winter (who pioneered the concept of “Unreached People Groups”), shifted his emphasis from “getting people saved” to recognizing that followers of Jesus are in an all-out cosmic battle, with God, against evil forces of darkness. That evil is characterized by lies, deceptions, violence, disease, corruption, etc. Winter states, “A great deal of the conflict between man and man is due to the absence of a clear understanding of the larger conflict between Satan and man and Satan and God. … Getting human beings to concentrate totally on their own waywardness toward God … diminishes their awareness of the larger struggle. Indeed, the bulk of all theologizing has to do with 'getting man right with God' rather than with restoring full glory to God by distinguishing God’s works from Satan’s works.” (See 1 John 3:8: The Son of God came for the purpose of destroying the works of the devil.) (Frontiers in Mission, p. 167; https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b3157f3b40b9d21a8096625/t/5f035c3cc46c79701edfd23b/1594055796725/Frontiers_in_Mission%2B4th%2Bed%2Bcopy.pdf)
WOW! What a spot on post and so well written, John. I just stumbled on your post and am hooked on your message. I have to say I was discouraged to read that you were on the cusp of losing your faith, but very relieved to read that you managed to salvage it.
I am not sure if posting this next part of my comment is ethical or not, so PLEASE delete this post if what I write next seems like I'm trying to promote myself, attract some of your readers to my Substack, or use your post just to promote MY post (there is a grain 🌾 🌾 of truth in one of these!). I recently posted an essay titled "A Message to Fellow Believers in Jesus" about the current level of hate in the church and it was, like your essay, pretty blunt. I love that you stepped up to the plate and "spoke the truth in love," which is a testament to your faith. My Substack is new and I really want to get more fellow believers to comment on that Jesus post. You don't have to subscribe to read or to comment on my Substack, so if anyone has time, could you please read and like / comment on this post? THANK YOU! https://armedrobbers2airedales.substack.com/p/a-message-to-fellow-believers-in
Why do you need even the concept of God to strive to make this world, or your little piece of it, ring with the love you found through the teachings of Jesus? Organized religion is not equipped to change people; at best it gives people a sense of community, even if that community is used for ill. Mostly organized religion was invented to control people as well as to provide some consolation in a brutal universe.
If we each have a soul, yours is a beautiful one. Yes, it's a mess because life is a mess with people in it. You can't change the heart of someone who simply was born without empathy and, as surely as some are born seemingly all empathy, some are born without it. You are on the other side of the spectrum from someone as monstrous as Hitler or Trump. The yin, the yang, the dark, the light, the good, the evil and all in between was made by your God, if there is one.
To keep your faith, which I would define more as a philosophy of living, the best one can do is to speak out (you do), surround yourself with like-minded people (you have) and stop trying to save a world that can't be saved. Jesus called on people to follow him and promised salvation if they did but perhaps the salvation is simply in the following, trying to find love in this world. Whatever follows, if anything, follows.
Whatever has the most impactful truth; a nugget. Often it is a lead paragraph or a summary paragraph. Or a boxed truth about a news event that is a totally different thread. A meaty statement that can be complete and stand alone.
Like on the difference between religion and belief, what grace really is.
Something you set apart as a statement to be revisited and shared throught out the day. "The Social Media Readerboard"
Thank you, John, for expressing in words what I have been feeling for some time now. I am a Catholic and my faith is very important to me. I stopped attending my parish in 2016 when our priest told us we had to vote for Trump to be faithful to the church. Every priest has an election year message reminding us to search our hearts before voting and to consider the promises made at our confirmation, but in all the years I have attending mass I never heard a priest tell us who to vote for! I had worked in the parish for 10 years and knew he hated women but still was shocked by this blatant partisanship. I attended mass in other places until he was transferred. Back in my own parish, I still wonder why the parish didn’t rise up as one to call for his removal, but my town is very red, so I suppose that question is answered. I was not raised Catholic, but wanted to be from a young age. My mother n sisters were Evangelicals on the extreme. My mother turned her back on everything she raised me to believe in, falling prey to my sisters’ teachings. I fought to hold my family together even tho my sisters nearly turned their backs on me when I formally joined the Catholic church. The messaging of evangelicals turns people inside out and I don’t understand why. The situation you described happens in all religions, and I usually tell myself it is because churches are run by flawed human beings, not by Jesus, but I fail to understand why those leaders joyfully encourage people to hate, to exclude, to be judgmental? I’ve seen posts from some Christian pastors saying they get mocked for sermons about the Sermon on the Mount, by parishioners who tell them it’s outmoded. Why would anyone prefer petty vengeance over God’s love for us? I do not understand the world today.
Gail, as someone who is familiar with The Church, you know that parish priest was not acting according to Scripture or his calling. You are astute enough to see some politicians for who & what they are. You are right not to play along or support them. There are so many churches out there who are on the right track. Seek & you will find. There will be others like you.
I grew up an independently spiritual.
A Liberal Christian that believes my dog has a soul, and I exist on the edge of these groups.
But I have found a FaceBook group of serious dog people, across the nation, who are seriously active as Democrat liberals. Among that group, I found Christ Followers. Sanity. Hopefilled discussions.
I have a suggestion for you, John.
Since you post almost every day.
Could you provide one statement every day that your followers could pick up and pass along to their following. A short paragraph of helpful news or gathered wisdom that can be a tool used to support Liberal Christianity.
I share your writings a lot but for my fringy readers an impactful paragraph would be absorbed so much better.
A lead paraphraph in Italics that could be passed around the world like a link in like thinking, promoting the recognition of its existance.
Thank you. There are others, but you are the best and most focused.
Dianna
Hi Dianna, Can you clarify what you're suggesting?
Are you saying you'd like a paragraph up front that summarizes the piece below it, or a short paragraph that stands alone each post?
Thank you!
If I run into a powerful sratement that I want to revisit for an extended period of time, I write it on "my bathroom mirror", right where my eyes go.
I used to have a random thought of the day where I posted a possibly controversial political/religious idea on my Facebook page, posed as a question (for my other-side-of-the-fence friends).
Thank you John for your courage to express your true feelings. As a former pastor I too, am dismayed, disappointed and sometimes feeling hopeless about the state of the Church. But as a follower of Jesus, it is love that continues to move me to not give up on my faith but rather to love others even more, no matter how difficult. I love your work and your words John, keep the faith brother.
Thanks for the kind words. As you know, perhaps especially in ministry, we see a lot more than we'd like about the inner workings of the Church, which sometimes makes us hyper aware of the sickness. It's a continual effort to separate Jesus from the followers of Jesus, and to separate them from the toxic collective expressions of faith.
Well, despite my personal experiences of the past couple of weeks, I do not believe the Church is a failed experiment. We are all just sinners saved by grace, stumbling our way around in the darkness when the Light is so near at hand. As humans we identify with the accused, rarely the accuser, even when we actually have more in common with the accuser. Someone who hurt me very badly 20 years ago, had a major heart attack 2 weeks ago & despite prompt medical attention & a quadruple bypass, he died a week ago. He never apologized to me for his actions. His work on earth was done. I am grateful I am not the grieving widow & I’m still here trying to make things better for the world in some small way. It’s a huge job for one person, but in concert with millions of other concerned, loving people it can be done, with or without The Church. Way, way too many people have been harmed by The Church to the point they cannot bring themselves to darken the door again. My heart breaks for them.
Failed religion is why Jesus came. No different today.
I surely do understand your predicament. I know you’ll figure it all out for yourself eventually. 🥰 it happened to me at 50. I’m 76 now. I believe that appreciation is of far more value than formal worship. Best wishes to you on your journey. Take care please.
I have found hope in a liturgical church. The confession, the Eucharist, the prayers of the people, the Nicene Creed. I am strengthened by reciting the words with everyone else. No electronic music, no light show, no fake emotion; just community and hospitality and a reason to rejoice!
Toward the end of his life, my mentor, the late missiologist, Ralph D. Winter (who pioneered the concept of “Unreached People Groups”), shifted his emphasis from “getting people saved” to recognizing that followers of Jesus are in an all-out cosmic battle, with God, against evil forces of darkness. That evil is characterized by lies, deceptions, violence, disease, corruption, etc. Winter states, “A great deal of the conflict between man and man is due to the absence of a clear understanding of the larger conflict between Satan and man and Satan and God. … Getting human beings to concentrate totally on their own waywardness toward God … diminishes their awareness of the larger struggle. Indeed, the bulk of all theologizing has to do with 'getting man right with God' rather than with restoring full glory to God by distinguishing God’s works from Satan’s works.” (See 1 John 3:8: The Son of God came for the purpose of destroying the works of the devil.) (Frontiers in Mission, p. 167; https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b3157f3b40b9d21a8096625/t/5f035c3cc46c79701edfd23b/1594055796725/Frontiers_in_Mission%2B4th%2Bed%2Bcopy.pdf)
WOW! What a spot on post and so well written, John. I just stumbled on your post and am hooked on your message. I have to say I was discouraged to read that you were on the cusp of losing your faith, but very relieved to read that you managed to salvage it.
I am not sure if posting this next part of my comment is ethical or not, so PLEASE delete this post if what I write next seems like I'm trying to promote myself, attract some of your readers to my Substack, or use your post just to promote MY post (there is a grain 🌾 🌾 of truth in one of these!). I recently posted an essay titled "A Message to Fellow Believers in Jesus" about the current level of hate in the church and it was, like your essay, pretty blunt. I love that you stepped up to the plate and "spoke the truth in love," which is a testament to your faith. My Substack is new and I really want to get more fellow believers to comment on that Jesus post. You don't have to subscribe to read or to comment on my Substack, so if anyone has time, could you please read and like / comment on this post? THANK YOU! https://armedrobbers2airedales.substack.com/p/a-message-to-fellow-believers-in
Why do you need even the concept of God to strive to make this world, or your little piece of it, ring with the love you found through the teachings of Jesus? Organized religion is not equipped to change people; at best it gives people a sense of community, even if that community is used for ill. Mostly organized religion was invented to control people as well as to provide some consolation in a brutal universe.
If we each have a soul, yours is a beautiful one. Yes, it's a mess because life is a mess with people in it. You can't change the heart of someone who simply was born without empathy and, as surely as some are born seemingly all empathy, some are born without it. You are on the other side of the spectrum from someone as monstrous as Hitler or Trump. The yin, the yang, the dark, the light, the good, the evil and all in between was made by your God, if there is one.
To keep your faith, which I would define more as a philosophy of living, the best one can do is to speak out (you do), surround yourself with like-minded people (you have) and stop trying to save a world that can't be saved. Jesus called on people to follow him and promised salvation if they did but perhaps the salvation is simply in the following, trying to find love in this world. Whatever follows, if anything, follows.
Whatever has the most impactful truth; a nugget. Often it is a lead paragraph or a summary paragraph. Or a boxed truth about a news event that is a totally different thread. A meaty statement that can be complete and stand alone.
Like on the difference between religion and belief, what grace really is.
Something you set apart as a statement to be revisited and shared throught out the day. "The Social Media Readerboard"