Ignorance is not a compelling argument. We’ve all heard the theories for the past eight years: people still supporting Donald Trump are somehow victims of the partisan media and Evangelical alternate reality that they've been raised in and are still captives of. They're continually surrounded
I believe an argument can be made for willful ignorance or "plausible deniability." It is a choice to only consume the media sources and speak with like minded citizens so as to confirm your biases. And you are correct, John. Adults should not do that. One hallmark of maturity is embracing truth no matter how painful or how contradictory it is to what you desperately want to believe. And that is what we are talking about: biases, prejudice as in pre-judging. The bulk of these voters are people who are tribal, who want their prejudices affirmed by an "authority figure" like God or Jesus or Trump, who has become their golden calf. Their prejudices may have to do with gender, race, sexuality, or political affiliation. They may have spent years listening to Rush Limbaugh or watching Fox Propaganda Network and they are righteous in their beliefs. Because there are millions who agree with them, and a central figure who leads them, and cowardly pastors who give in to them, they are certain they are right. They have been taught to fear and to hate and they will allow no information in to refute their beliefs because it makes them feel good. They have hated and feared in isolation for a long time but with social media and the megaphone of Trump, they have found a crowd whom they believe confirms what they have always felt. They are lost in a miasma of emotions and cognitive biases and only time and well-educated, determined Americans will defeat them.
Don’t forget that they also get confirmation of their biases in church. That doesn’t excuse their ignorance. As John said, if they are reading and pondering what Jesus said and did their conscience would step in. They are Political Christians.
Ellen, that's as good an analysis as I've seen recently. The behaviors are predictable and your last statement, "only time and well-educated, determined Americans will defeat them" is pure gold. Too few remember or are even interested in learning about Germany in the 1930's.
I was reared in Christian Nationalism, and I was indoctrinated to automatically disbelieve anyone my pastor told me to disbelieve. I was indoctrinated to only get my information from sources my pastor endorsed. I lived that way into my 30s, and I was as ridiculous and intolerable any person a reader can name from their own circles who behaves this way today.
John is right. I had to CHOOSE to seek other information. I CHOSE to educate myself with real academic history books that weren't written by Christian Nationalist Bob Jones University. I asked questions. I challenged everything I'd ever been told. And you know what? It's hard work to unpack all that stuff. It took me almost 2 decades. In truth, I'll probably die before it's all done.
Too many people look at the sheer height of the cliff they have to climb to do that work, or they consider everything they will lose if they do it (I don't have any real relationships from that phase of my life, for example), and they decide it's too hard. So they dig in and they don't change. I've stopped trying to change them. We need to annihilate them in November at every ballot box in this country.
Thank you for stepping out & doing the work of educating yourself versus blindly accepting what you were taught in church & at the college you chose to attend. Change is hard but the truth out there. Keep after it.
I’ve seem the serious interviews and some of this people qualify as stupid. See prior post (hit send accidentally)
The first problem is that their high school education was inadequate (or they skipped a lot of classes). They are lacking a broad knowledge of American and World history. History is the foundation. Learning from the evil intentions and unintended mistakes stops us from repeating them. Nowhere will you find a fascist government that has been successful. In fact, it often plunged their country into financial and social crisis.
A large number of unhappy people, who blame immigrants and people of color and the opposite political party, are attracted to easy solutions. The Trumpers have been unhappy for years and are desperate. Desperate people will go along with extreme ideas and believe lies because they perceive the”Strongman” is offering the “right” answers to their problems. In other words, they are being told what they already believe to be true.
They hear the extreme rants and zealous patriotism and it captures their hearts and minds and gives them hope. They also see the current version of the Republicans as willing to make their desires come true. Like the MAGA hat-wearing lady that was interviewed recently online. When asked respectfully her opinion of NATO, she responded about Trump is right and we shouldn’t be a part of that.
When she was asked if she knew what NATO is and how important it is. She couldn’t. That’s the problem they aren’t interested in learning the facts. Everything is spoon fed by Fox News, Facebook groups and other distributors of lies and misinformation.
If you spend your life eating the bullshit you were fed - you would’t recognize a healthy meal.
I read somewhere a long time ago that to manage stress effectively, one should ensure that one's "circle of concern" never extends beyond one's "circle of control". While this might not be reprehensible at first glance as a purely business management issue, it is wholly reprehensible as a moral or ethical guide - even in a business context. We shall complete our self-destruction as a species if we continue to limit our reach to our grasp, and our grasp to our selfish, individualistic interests. Narrowing our field of moral vision (our blinders) to block out our fellow humans' needs and goals may ease the stress a bit in the short term, especially for folks who are struggling with emotional resiliency (or lack thereof), but it cannot solve the problem permanently. American fascists (I hate to use the term christian nationalist for they are not really faith Christians, just political christians) are substituting a comforting, self-affirming myth for the harsh reality, often due to the fear and anger that someone, somewhere who they believe is inferior to them is being treated equally. (Hat tip to a meme currently circulating on the Substack Notes feed) John, I agree that it is time that the coddling and excuse-making ceases. There are a host of real challenges facing rural folks, challenges they did not cause but which wreack havoc on their lives. But they bear the personal responsibility to wake up and stop electing people who blame those problems on the mere existence of marginalized groups and do nothing to address the real causes. Culture wars solve nothing, do nothing to make life better, and divert time, attention and resources in a way the perpetuates the problems.
Humans have the propensity to want or need to blame their troubles on anyone other than themselves. As a species, we are not particularly good at soul-searching. As much as we may not want to admit it, we are at least partially responsible for Trump and his followers. It is also our responsibility to try to stop them from wreaking more havoc on the damaged psyche of our society.
Thank you, John. You can’t just blame MMS for trump followers. I find many to be hateful, bigoted and self-centered. trump is their outlet for being this way.
You are so right!!! My brother who goes to an evangelical church and listens to Fox ‘News’ sent me a text on Easter Sunday complaining about the current administration and how horrible the world is - ironically he didn’t have any joy to share for the resurrection! Makes my head hurt! Thank you for this writing-so perfectly stated.
As a long time observer of behavioral differences between educated people and undereducated people, I believe the U.S. is suffering from an epidemic of Stupidity, and, it's dangerous.
It’s far too easy to dismiss Trump supporters as stupid. It’s easier to think that than it is to consider that they may be intentionally cruel, selfish individuals. But I am finished giving any kind of a pass for what I see as immorality.
Trump opened a Pandora’s Box of the hatred and anger that was just waiting to be released. It’s going to be a difficult task to place the lid back on that box, if we even can.
The book "White Rural Rage lays out in great detail the decades of misguided policies and corporate greed that have decimated rural health care systems, rural economies, torn their social fabric, and left them to die earlier and in greater numbers through suicide and drug overdoses. The problem is not that they are "enraged and engaged", but that they have had their energies and attention misdirected intentionally by their populist "representatives" in an effort to protect the power, profits and other selfish interests of the very entities that are destroying them. Trump and others in his party say, "Look over there - immigrants, minorities, gay and transgender folks, and Muslims are causing your pain and destroying America!" All the while, the true villians, aided and abetted by the antidemocratic billionaire-supported right wing Putin-adjacent media, are free to continue to cause the real havoc in their lives and remain unidentified and unabated. We can help our rural fellow citizens by continuing to shine bright lights on their escapades and misinformation - expecting not an epiphany on their part as a group, but perhaps reaching one person at a time in the long term. In the short term, however, we need to do what we can to maximize the blue vote whatever our usual preferences might be in " normal" times. You and your team are doing a great job with respect to spotlighting the Project 2025 neo-fascist playbook! Thank you!
Correction - in my comment above, I mistook your account with that of Andra Watkins with respect to the work regarding Project 2025. I apologize to both of you! It is getting late here!
This is one of my favorite posts. I have alway's felt Trump voter's were to bull headed to admit they got it wrong. It's time to wake up and realize what is happening here.
Adults must be held accountable for their actions. If some people want to blame people of color, the disabled, or people with empathy for their problems they need to be called out.
Every word you write is so true! I believe people are not stupid and are willingly following Trump because they get something (I don’t know what) out of it. Thank you for writing the bold truth!
Sadly, some of these people are our friends, family, or church acquaintances who see in Trump the worse of themselves. Of course, it's then very easy to identify with him; they are also accustomed to being told what to think.
I believe an argument can be made for willful ignorance or "plausible deniability." It is a choice to only consume the media sources and speak with like minded citizens so as to confirm your biases. And you are correct, John. Adults should not do that. One hallmark of maturity is embracing truth no matter how painful or how contradictory it is to what you desperately want to believe. And that is what we are talking about: biases, prejudice as in pre-judging. The bulk of these voters are people who are tribal, who want their prejudices affirmed by an "authority figure" like God or Jesus or Trump, who has become their golden calf. Their prejudices may have to do with gender, race, sexuality, or political affiliation. They may have spent years listening to Rush Limbaugh or watching Fox Propaganda Network and they are righteous in their beliefs. Because there are millions who agree with them, and a central figure who leads them, and cowardly pastors who give in to them, they are certain they are right. They have been taught to fear and to hate and they will allow no information in to refute their beliefs because it makes them feel good. They have hated and feared in isolation for a long time but with social media and the megaphone of Trump, they have found a crowd whom they believe confirms what they have always felt. They are lost in a miasma of emotions and cognitive biases and only time and well-educated, determined Americans will defeat them.
Don’t forget that they also get confirmation of their biases in church. That doesn’t excuse their ignorance. As John said, if they are reading and pondering what Jesus said and did their conscience would step in. They are Political Christians.
Ellen, that's as good an analysis as I've seen recently. The behaviors are predictable and your last statement, "only time and well-educated, determined Americans will defeat them" is pure gold. Too few remember or are even interested in learning about Germany in the 1930's.
https://garygruber.substack.com/p/a-dismal-failure
I was reared in Christian Nationalism, and I was indoctrinated to automatically disbelieve anyone my pastor told me to disbelieve. I was indoctrinated to only get my information from sources my pastor endorsed. I lived that way into my 30s, and I was as ridiculous and intolerable any person a reader can name from their own circles who behaves this way today.
John is right. I had to CHOOSE to seek other information. I CHOSE to educate myself with real academic history books that weren't written by Christian Nationalist Bob Jones University. I asked questions. I challenged everything I'd ever been told. And you know what? It's hard work to unpack all that stuff. It took me almost 2 decades. In truth, I'll probably die before it's all done.
Too many people look at the sheer height of the cliff they have to climb to do that work, or they consider everything they will lose if they do it (I don't have any real relationships from that phase of my life, for example), and they decide it's too hard. So they dig in and they don't change. I've stopped trying to change them. We need to annihilate them in November at every ballot box in this country.
Thank you for stepping out & doing the work of educating yourself versus blindly accepting what you were taught in church & at the college you chose to attend. Change is hard but the truth out there. Keep after it.
I’ve seem the serious interviews and some of this people qualify as stupid. See prior post (hit send accidentally)
The first problem is that their high school education was inadequate (or they skipped a lot of classes). They are lacking a broad knowledge of American and World history. History is the foundation. Learning from the evil intentions and unintended mistakes stops us from repeating them. Nowhere will you find a fascist government that has been successful. In fact, it often plunged their country into financial and social crisis.
A large number of unhappy people, who blame immigrants and people of color and the opposite political party, are attracted to easy solutions. The Trumpers have been unhappy for years and are desperate. Desperate people will go along with extreme ideas and believe lies because they perceive the”Strongman” is offering the “right” answers to their problems. In other words, they are being told what they already believe to be true.
They hear the extreme rants and zealous patriotism and it captures their hearts and minds and gives them hope. They also see the current version of the Republicans as willing to make their desires come true. Like the MAGA hat-wearing lady that was interviewed recently online. When asked respectfully her opinion of NATO, she responded about Trump is right and we shouldn’t be a part of that.
Part 3
When she was asked if she knew what NATO is and how important it is. She couldn’t. That’s the problem they aren’t interested in learning the facts. Everything is spoon fed by Fox News, Facebook groups and other distributors of lies and misinformation.
If you spend your life eating the bullshit you were fed - you would’t recognize a healthy meal.
I read somewhere a long time ago that to manage stress effectively, one should ensure that one's "circle of concern" never extends beyond one's "circle of control". While this might not be reprehensible at first glance as a purely business management issue, it is wholly reprehensible as a moral or ethical guide - even in a business context. We shall complete our self-destruction as a species if we continue to limit our reach to our grasp, and our grasp to our selfish, individualistic interests. Narrowing our field of moral vision (our blinders) to block out our fellow humans' needs and goals may ease the stress a bit in the short term, especially for folks who are struggling with emotional resiliency (or lack thereof), but it cannot solve the problem permanently. American fascists (I hate to use the term christian nationalist for they are not really faith Christians, just political christians) are substituting a comforting, self-affirming myth for the harsh reality, often due to the fear and anger that someone, somewhere who they believe is inferior to them is being treated equally. (Hat tip to a meme currently circulating on the Substack Notes feed) John, I agree that it is time that the coddling and excuse-making ceases. There are a host of real challenges facing rural folks, challenges they did not cause but which wreack havoc on their lives. But they bear the personal responsibility to wake up and stop electing people who blame those problems on the mere existence of marginalized groups and do nothing to address the real causes. Culture wars solve nothing, do nothing to make life better, and divert time, attention and resources in a way the perpetuates the problems.
Well said!
Humans have the propensity to want or need to blame their troubles on anyone other than themselves. As a species, we are not particularly good at soul-searching. As much as we may not want to admit it, we are at least partially responsible for Trump and his followers. It is also our responsibility to try to stop them from wreaking more havoc on the damaged psyche of our society.
Thank you, John. You can’t just blame MMS for trump followers. I find many to be hateful, bigoted and self-centered. trump is their outlet for being this way.
You are so right!!! My brother who goes to an evangelical church and listens to Fox ‘News’ sent me a text on Easter Sunday complaining about the current administration and how horrible the world is - ironically he didn’t have any joy to share for the resurrection! Makes my head hurt! Thank you for this writing-so perfectly stated.
MAGA and Christian Nationalists are ignorant as in the dictionary definition - lacking knowledge or awareness, uneducated.
As a long time observer of behavioral differences between educated people and undereducated people, I believe the U.S. is suffering from an epidemic of Stupidity, and, it's dangerous.
https://garygruber.substack.com/p/a-dismal-failure
Thank you, John, for another insightful piece.
It’s far too easy to dismiss Trump supporters as stupid. It’s easier to think that than it is to consider that they may be intentionally cruel, selfish individuals. But I am finished giving any kind of a pass for what I see as immorality.
Trump opened a Pandora’s Box of the hatred and anger that was just waiting to be released. It’s going to be a difficult task to place the lid back on that box, if we even can.
The book "White Rural Rage lays out in great detail the decades of misguided policies and corporate greed that have decimated rural health care systems, rural economies, torn their social fabric, and left them to die earlier and in greater numbers through suicide and drug overdoses. The problem is not that they are "enraged and engaged", but that they have had their energies and attention misdirected intentionally by their populist "representatives" in an effort to protect the power, profits and other selfish interests of the very entities that are destroying them. Trump and others in his party say, "Look over there - immigrants, minorities, gay and transgender folks, and Muslims are causing your pain and destroying America!" All the while, the true villians, aided and abetted by the antidemocratic billionaire-supported right wing Putin-adjacent media, are free to continue to cause the real havoc in their lives and remain unidentified and unabated. We can help our rural fellow citizens by continuing to shine bright lights on their escapades and misinformation - expecting not an epiphany on their part as a group, but perhaps reaching one person at a time in the long term. In the short term, however, we need to do what we can to maximize the blue vote whatever our usual preferences might be in " normal" times. You and your team are doing a great job with respect to spotlighting the Project 2025 neo-fascist playbook! Thank you!
Correction - in my comment above, I mistook your account with that of Andra Watkins with respect to the work regarding Project 2025. I apologize to both of you! It is getting late here!
Not a problem. I read your reply to Andra with interest!
Actually, my reply was inspired by your excellent comment! I just misattributed it to Andra, when I should have mentioned you. Have a great weekend!
This is one of my favorite posts. I have alway's felt Trump voter's were to bull headed to admit they got it wrong. It's time to wake up and realize what is happening here.
Adults must be held accountable for their actions. If some people want to blame people of color, the disabled, or people with empathy for their problems they need to be called out.
Well stated and informative, another layer of the onion peeled. You covered all the bases decoding the enigma. Home run! 🥰
Every word you write is so true! I believe people are not stupid and are willingly following Trump because they get something (I don’t know what) out of it. Thank you for writing the bold truth!
Sadly, some of these people are our friends, family, or church acquaintances who see in Trump the worse of themselves. Of course, it's then very easy to identify with him; they are also accustomed to being told what to think.
Thank you again for bringing these issues to us all!!
We must do this. Thanks!